Comments on: Learning Design: Emulate or Challenge http://www.wisdump.com/design/learning-design-emulate-or-challenge/ Dumping wisdom on design and the web Sat, 01 Oct 2011 03:29:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Nicolai http://www.wisdump.com/design/learning-design-emulate-or-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-3884 Nicolai Sun, 19 Mar 2006 23:43:45 +0000 http://wisdump.com/?p=143#comment-3884 I define "design" as "problem-solving." Sorry, but IMO this is the only sane thing that's been said in this discussion. Design <em>is not art</em>, it's the solving of functional problems. Design is not an outlet for your artistic flair, expression of personal style, or any of that. Our job is to solve the problem well. That's it. It's not about you—at all—it's about the solution. I personally take pride in not being original with the majority of my designs. I like that there's a well-codified set of rules for typography that have been refined over a few thousand years of writing stuff down. Originality in this department, particularly on the Web, is usually disastrous. If you really want to, throw the rules out the window. Go for unrestrained line lengths. 60 word lines? No problem! Use that 7 point serif on your Web site, it's so designerly! Rock that blink tag! See if anybody reads it. I once read this great quote about eBay, "sure, I paid $5 for that can of beans, <em>but I won the auction</em>". Don't make the same mistake with design and originality. There are known solutions to certain problems. Don't get caught in the trap of "sure, my 'design' is completely incoherent, illegible, laden with AJAX (just cuz I can!) and literally painful due to weird color choices, <em>but it's original</em>". I define “design” as “problem-solving.”

Sorry, but IMO this is the only sane thing that’s been said in this discussion.

Design is not art, it’s the solving of functional problems. Design is not an outlet for your artistic flair, expression of personal style, or any of that. Our job is to solve the problem well. That’s it. It’s not about you—at all—it’s about the solution.

I personally take pride in not being original with the majority of my designs. I like that there’s a well-codified set of rules for typography that have been refined over a few thousand years of writing stuff down. Originality in this department, particularly on the Web, is usually disastrous. If you really want to, throw the rules out the window. Go for unrestrained line lengths. 60 word lines? No problem! Use that 7 point serif on your Web site, it’s so designerly! Rock that blink tag! See if anybody reads it.

I once read this great quote about eBay, “sure, I paid $5 for that can of beans, but I won the auction“. Don’t make the same mistake with design and originality. There are known solutions to certain problems. Don’t get caught in the trap of “sure, my ‘design’ is completely incoherent, illegible, laden with AJAX (just cuz I can!) and literally painful due to weird color choices, but it’s original“.

]]> By: Oliver Reichenstein http://www.wisdump.com/design/learning-design-emulate-or-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-3883 Oliver Reichenstein Fri, 24 Feb 2006 03:45:27 +0000 http://wisdump.com/?p=143#comment-3883 All I know about webdesign comes from emulation, as I didn't study design at school (my major: Phlosophy). Here in Japan imitation is a very natural and common thing also and especially among creative people and by no way regarded in any way as bad or lame. Imitation is regarded as the first step to creativity. I emulated whitespace and business logs to get to the new design of my homepage. The challenge mostly is: To make it simpler and add your characterisitc details. (Didn't manage yet to challenge the footer design of business logs yet, which I think is just awesome, but I get to challenge it soon.) All I know about webdesign comes from emulation, as I didn’t study design at school (my major: Phlosophy).

Here in Japan imitation is a very natural and common thing also and especially among creative people and by no way regarded in any way as bad or lame. Imitation is regarded as the first step to creativity.

I emulated whitespace and business logs to get to the new design of my homepage. The challenge mostly is: To make it simpler and add your characterisitc details. (Didn’t manage yet to challenge the footer design of business logs yet, which I think is just awesome, but I get to challenge it soon.)

]]> By: Joachim http://www.wisdump.com/design/learning-design-emulate-or-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-3882 Joachim Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:11:35 +0000 http://wisdump.com/?p=143#comment-3882 Man without being able to copy you have to be one talented person. The best way I think to look at it is it's a never eneding race. Someone is always in first and you second. Then you are in first when your new design is complete. But hay someone is coming up behind you and guess what your back in second. and so it goes on. If you dont wnat anyone to copy your work dont display it. But then whats the point. I love people taking ideas form me as it a sign off I must be doing something right. Like music design should be sampled and changed but not just ripped off. Man without being able to copy you have to be one talented person. The best way I think to look at it is it’s a never eneding race. Someone is always in first and you second. Then you are in first when your new design is complete. But hay someone is coming up behind you and guess what your back in second. and so it goes on.

If you dont wnat anyone to copy your work dont display it. But then whats the point. I love people taking ideas form me as it a sign off I must be doing something right.

Like music design should be sampled and changed but not just ripped off.

]]> By: karmatosed http://www.wisdump.com/design/learning-design-emulate-or-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-3881 karmatosed Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:08:36 +0000 http://wisdump.com/?p=143#comment-3881 My husband had a rare lucid moment the other night and stated: "Artists don't live in the real world. Designers find a use for the world". Considering he is a landscape gardener and not a designer (although he was trained as an illustrator), I thought this was really spot on. It was also rare as far as lucid goes as he is often wandering about muttering about trees - living with a gardener is a muddy experience. My husband had a rare lucid moment the other night and stated:
“Artists don’t live in the real world. Designers find a use for the world”.
Considering he is a landscape gardener and not a designer (although he was trained as an illustrator), I thought this was really spot on. It was also rare as far as lucid goes as he is often wandering about muttering about trees – living with a gardener is a muddy experience.

]]> By: Thuan http://www.wisdump.com/design/learning-design-emulate-or-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-3880 Thuan Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:47:39 +0000 http://wisdump.com/?p=143#comment-3880 Jeremy Techtmann, juste another quote for you. "Creativity is the art of hiding its sources" (A.Einstein). ... Quite the same idea. Jeremy Techtmann, juste another quote for you. “Creativity is the art of hiding its sources” (A.Einstein). … Quite the same idea.

]]> By: Edward http://www.wisdump.com/design/learning-design-emulate-or-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-3879 Edward Sat, 18 Feb 2006 00:44:15 +0000 http://wisdump.com/?p=143#comment-3879 There's so much to the design process it's almost impossible to really answer your question. However, I'm surprised nobody's linked to Cameron's article by now: http://www.sitepoint.com/article/copy-great-designers-steal There is nothing wrong with learning from good designers, in fact, that's the only logical way to go about it. Learn from other people's experiences. There’s so much to the design process it’s almost impossible to really answer your question. However, I’m surprised nobody’s linked to Cameron’s article by now:
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/copy-great-designers-steal

There is nothing wrong with learning from good designers, in fact, that’s the only logical way to go about it. Learn from other people’s experiences.

]]> By: Rabbit http://www.wisdump.com/design/learning-design-emulate-or-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-3878 Rabbit Fri, 17 Feb 2006 19:02:42 +0000 http://wisdump.com/?p=143#comment-3878 I define "design" as "problem-solving." Given that definition, I think Scriv's is an excellent designer. He's solved a great many problems and achieved a great many goals with his web sites. I've been a reader of WS for a long time, and he's <em>always</em> bashed his "design" skills. His visual tastes are similar to mine, too. I think WS looks great. It's lean and clean. What more do you want? Something like Stop Design, maybe? Why? Anyway, in answer to the "question," I agree with others that have said we stand on the shoulders of those before us. We see emulation in nature all the time, too. Honestly, I think this whole post is a moot point. Scriv's asks, "But how can one learn quality design if not emulating the people we respect?" Eh.. what's quality? Someone might say WS sucks, but above I said I liked it. Take Exploding Dog for example. I LOVE his stuff. Other's say he's a talent-less hack. Beauty's in the eye of the beholder. Go ahead and mimic those you like, but I don't think any particular "design" (in the graphic sense, not the problem-solving sense) is better or worse than any other "design." I define “design” as “problem-solving.”

Given that definition, I think Scriv’s is an excellent designer. He’s solved a great many problems and achieved a great many goals with his web sites.

I’ve been a reader of WS for a long time, and he’s always bashed his “design” skills.

His visual tastes are similar to mine, too. I think WS looks great. It’s lean and clean. What more do you want?

Something like Stop Design, maybe? Why?

Anyway, in answer to the “question,” I agree with others that have said we stand on the shoulders of those before us. We see emulation in nature all the time, too.

Honestly, I think this whole post is a moot point.

Scriv’s asks, “But how can one learn quality design if not emulating the people we respect?”

Eh.. what’s quality? Someone might say WS sucks, but above I said I liked it.

Take Exploding Dog for example. I LOVE his stuff. Other’s say he’s a talent-less hack. Beauty’s in the eye of the beholder. Go ahead and mimic those you like, but I don’t think any particular “design” (in the graphic sense, not the problem-solving sense) is better or worse than any other “design.”

]]> By: Javier Cabrera (CSSelite) http://www.wisdump.com/design/learning-design-emulate-or-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-3877 Javier Cabrera (CSSelite) Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:23:05 +0000 http://wisdump.com/?p=143#comment-3877 I never done that, don't know why. I'm that stupid, its a terrific idea. What I done, is this: - Look a good, tasty design - Stare at it for about 45 minutes - Take a sip of water - Hit my face in the wall - If nothing pops out my head, and idea will hit me soon - I hit my face in the wall again and again, until an idea pops out - I try that idea, that design. Bad thing is, I had to do this process like four times before I find something really tasty and beautiful. Four times. I never get it right away. BTW, I have the biggest forehead you ever saw and there isn't much inside my head so... I don't harm myself that much. Javier Cabrera I never done that, don’t know why. I’m that stupid, its a terrific idea. What I done, is this:

- Look a good, tasty design
- Stare at it for about 45 minutes
- Take a sip of water
- Hit my face in the wall
- If nothing pops out my head, and idea will hit me soon
- I hit my face in the wall again and again, until an idea pops out
- I try that idea, that design.

Bad thing is, I had to do this process like four times before I find something really tasty and beautiful. Four times. I never get it right away.

BTW, I have the biggest forehead you ever saw and there isn’t much inside my head so… I don’t harm myself that much.

Javier Cabrera

]]> By: Robert de Mildt http://www.wisdump.com/design/learning-design-emulate-or-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-3876 Robert de Mildt Fri, 17 Feb 2006 17:54:38 +0000 http://wisdump.com/?p=143#comment-3876 I once heard an interview with a few of the greatest names in the present blues- & jazz-scene (George Benson, B.B.King, Stanley Clarke, Al di Meola, etc..) about an opportunity they once had to share the same stage and play together. When asked about these performances they all kept saying it was so interesting to be able to learn new tricks for each other. I find that most people who claim to be original aren't and those who are will have little restrictions in sharing who and what they've learned from. I once heard an interview with a few of the greatest names in the present blues- & jazz-scene (George Benson, B.B.King, Stanley Clarke, Al di Meola, etc..) about an opportunity they once had to share the same stage and play together. When asked about these performances they all kept saying it was so interesting to be able to learn new tricks for each other. I find that most people who claim to be original aren’t and those who are will have little restrictions in sharing who and what they’ve learned from.

]]> By: karmatosed http://www.wisdump.com/design/learning-design-emulate-or-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-3875 karmatosed Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:26:44 +0000 http://wisdump.com/?p=143#comment-3875 As a human you are influenced by things around you. You also have to make sure you know what is going on in your field and as a result you will expose yourself to styles that may or may not influence you. Having your own style is a thing that take a long time to develop. I do not see anything wrong in people using others as inspiration - but the line between inspiration and copy cat is a thin one. At the beginning you learn from example and then you move on to hopefully creating the examples. In design, gaining your style is when you become a true designer rather than a junior, that is probably one of the key aspects which leads you to grow up the career path. I see this a lot in the juniors that I have in my studio. Most also move on and progress once they have experimented and found their style - it is a process that changes depending on the person. Some of course seem to almost be born with a style where others are relative photo copiers and can turn their hands to any style requested. As a human you are influenced by things around you. You also have to make sure you know what is going on in your field and as a result you will expose yourself to styles that may or may not influence you. Having your own style is a thing that take a long time to develop. I do not see anything wrong in people using others as inspiration – but the line between inspiration and copy cat is a thin one. At the beginning you learn from example and then you move on to hopefully creating the examples.

In design, gaining your style is when you become a true designer rather than a junior, that is probably one of the key aspects which leads you to grow up the career path. I see this a lot in the juniors that I have in my studio. Most also move on and progress once they have experimented and found their style – it is a process that changes depending on the person. Some of course seem to almost be born with a style where others are relative photo copiers and can turn their hands to any style requested.

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