October 11, 2003 | View Comments (16) | Category: Design Journal
Summary: Unexpected surprises when I meet with Nick
So I met Nick yesterday and I was feeling pretty confident that this meeting was simply a formality and also a chance to discuss the needs of the site. I took special care to notice how is office was decorated and the feeling that it gave out. I wanted to do this so I could have an idea of the best way to go about the website. As a designer, it is vitally important that I design for the audience of the website. However, if the client is not happy because the website is not what he had in mind, then all my efforts are a waste of time.
After sitting down in my office I handed Nick the proposal and began to start pitching the project. However, before I could even get started he handed me a catalog of some huge Accounting-type supplier that offered a website package. This was one of those things where they build a couple of templates and stick your content inside it. They give you a page of stocks and other items that Accountants would find enticing. All of this came at a cost of $250 for the basic package and $350 for the advanced package. He wanted to know why he should go with me when he could go with something like this. I was floored.
After quickly recovering I simply asked for a couple seconds to look over what the company was offering. First I noticed that the price was very deceptive. I admit that $250 is a great price for a package. But that was only setup fees. The cost for hosting was $50/month for basic and $100/month for the advanced. I quickly pointed out that he was looking at a minimum of $850 for his website. I saw his eyebrows raise a little bit and I knew I was getting to him. Again I looked over the features. You were only allowed one custom page where you could list your services. Nick wanted to add a directory to his website and also a financial services page. Neither of these was possible with either package. Finally, I told him that I could probably find hundreds of accounting websites that use this template and if he wanted to offer a friendly, feel-good site that was personable to his clientele then this was probably not the way to go.
I did not want to seem like I was trying to completely downplay the website package, because honestly, I could see how it was attractive for customers. I also made sure to explain that the price I was quoting for him included the customization that he may be looking for in a site along with a look and feel that was solely his own. He was sold. I beat the big dogs and I did it with honesty. If you are confident in what you are offering then stick to your guns. I admit that this could have gone either way and I was fortunate to know Nick, but I feel my arguments would have swayed most people.
After all of this we simply went over the pages and features that he was looking for in a website. I asked for his business card to look at the colors and the fonts used. His only interest was that there was blue on the site. Fair enough, it was his site afterall. I explained that I would begin diagramming the site and as soon as development began that it would be a very open process. No secrets here.
The final formality was going over the contract. Now with future clients I can imagine that I will not show them the contract and the proposal in the same meeting. However, I had already had my basic contract and I was firm that I was not going to lower my price so it ended up well. Not many people like the idea of signing a contract and handing a person money at the same time. Especially someone as young as me (23 years old). However, I made sure to go over every point of the contract and explained that it helped both him and me from getting screwed over. This helped to build his confidence in both me and the project. Contract signed. Check written. Project begins.
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Without going into specifics if possible (because it's none of my business), how does one go about pricing a job fairly?
Whenever I've done the odd bit of private work I've always ended up leaving it to the other person to decide what a fair price is. Which is fine if they're friends but not so professionel if it ever came to a client.
On a different tack, I would have preffered to email this to you but I can't find a contact address, but then it looks like your doing some site tweaking.
btw, the background effect on this form is a really good idea!
pete (http://www.monkiboi.net)
Pete: I sent you an email.
JC: Those type of people really piss me off because of them the job I do seems lame. What I mean is that when I tell people I am a designer they just look at me with this "Oh you do the job everyone else does". Pisses me off.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
Although I've said it before, Pete's question is of interest to me too. Perhaps you can devote an entry to that topic at some point? I actually work for a company that does the opposite of what you're doing here (template design for medical professionals - although it's pretty customizable) so our sales people have the job of convincing people NOT to use individual designers. :)
kyle (http://www.allergic2love.com)
Forgot to add that I like the new design - even if it is still under construction, it's a good start.
kyle (http://www.allergic2love.com)
Yeah, I emailed Joel earlier. It looks like I will have to write something up, just as long as you guys gimme a 6 month headstart to develop a good client base :)
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
I know. there's this lady in my town who does crap with frontpage and pretty much just uses templates... her highest tech tool is paint shop pro 4 and that phony flash thing that only does cheezy text effects.
But she gets clients because she has a preset fee on her website and doesnt do any really custom stuff. A 12 page site with up to 36 scanned images or digital photos and a response form, 1500 dollars. 2 pages, 2 images, 200 dollars. of course, the sites are godawful and they either fail miserably or the companies hire someone like me to redesign them. But she gets paid either way. She's like a seller of cheap off-the-rack discount store suits, while you and I and others like us are tailors.
As for pricing... that's easy.
Whatever the maximum amount of money is that the client is willing to pay, so long as you are willing to work for that amount. ::grin::
it's determining that maximum that can be hard.
I dunno about Scrivs, but I usually quote about 3K if the site's not intensely complex and let them work their way down from there. I have my own server so I can throw in extras like free hosting and so forth to sweeten the deal. And if you're doing a site for a company you'd do business with otherwise, bartering is always good. You might be able to get more than you'd get in cash via barter because the client can go by their cost rather than their price. Lawyers are good clients for this... trade a site for a few hours of legal consultation and help with your contracts.
JC (http://www.thelionsweb.com/weblog)
I worked on a Honda dealership site and inturn got my car at cost, and didn't have to pay any service fees for the next 3 years. I'm fairly confident I got more out of the deal by bargaining than I would have if I'd just been paid in one lump sum.
kyle (http://www.allergic2love.com)
That is awesome...I am off to the Mercedes dealership right now...I think they need a website.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
Congratulations on the job. $50 for hosting is crazy, but luckily you used that to your advantage.
Mercedes? And I'm off to a helicopter dealership!
chris (http://www.onlinefame.com/)
Hmm. $50 a month for hosting a website isn't that terribly bad if it's actually hosting and support, especially if it includes changes.
On the other hand, I only spend about $80 a month for my *server* hosting with excellent support.
And while you guys are hitting the mercedes dealer... well, maybe I'll be down at a good ole nevada brothel.
JC (http://www.thelionsweb.com/weblog)
$50/month...with no changes to the site allowed. That is ridiculous to me.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
If it's $50 a month, then there better be some major support/management going on at that facility. But I have a feeling it's just some $10 hosting plan being resold at a high price...
chris (http://www.onlinefame.com/)
I would love to hear more about these pricing issues. This is a huge struggle for me.
I am getting a lot more inquiries recently and have been giving price quotes and I feel like I am just making up numbers.
A big part of what determines how much time a site takes is how well the client knows what they want and have their material ready but I always get stuck coaxing content out of them.
If I told people to contact me when they have content ready I would have no work but waiting for content often forces me to do a lot of work twice.
Anyone else struggle with this? What are the pricing choices you offer? Has this been discussed somewhere else on the web?
J R
JR, I'd suggest you write better contracts. If you cover all that stuff in the contract and charge extra after a certain point (for example), they can become amazingly adept at getting what you need.
I strongly suggest reading Hal Helms' 12 step development process. It's undoubtedly changed since 2001, but it provides a good background. All the other stuff on his site is worth reading, too, as is this article on the Fusebox Lifecycle Process (FLiP)
Neither of these deal specifically with determining exact price. They deal with determing the scope of the project and setting it in stone, and how to charge for specific phases of a project.
Keep in mind, of course, that Hal's one of the top CF developers in the country and is in very great demand... so he can afford to charge for things the rest of us might have to give for free.
JC (http://www.thelionsweb.com/weblog)
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#1
Congrats!
at least he didn't have a 15 year old nephew with front page sitting there sure he can do anything you can do for 1/10 your price.
JC (http://www.thelionsweb.com/weblog)