May 03, 2004 | View Comments (26) | Category: Our Thoughts
Summary: Simple contests are never simple.
This happened faster than I thought. When doing a design contest you as a designer are putting your efforts into the contest. You are putting your skills to the test. Sometimes the people use your designs and sometimes they don't. The logo contest I just mentioned said that I get to retain all rights to the logo. Normally I wouldn't have said something like this, but I have gone through so much legal troubles that I had to make it known.
The problem is that professional logo design or any design for that matter is much more than 3 books. So it is quite possible that I stand to gain more from this than anyone. If you don't feel like "selling" your services for three books then feel free not to enter. I would understand.
Others just enjoy contests. Some like to see their work on bigger scales. I don't know. I was thinking about a logo contest, Eris brought it up again over email so I went through with it. I didn't want to use the winning logo and suddenly find out that I am getting sued. So I said I get all rights. Figured not too many people would have a problem with a blog doing that.
I put about 5 seconds into the current logo as you can see. Just tried to make this fun. Again, if you think this is not fair or unjust and can picture me selling Whitespace schwag with your logo on it then don't enter. If you really think someone would pay for some Whitespace schwag then hell, lemme know what I should sell.
So lemme restate this. You can say you created the logo. Put it in a portfolio. Tell your mom you created it. Just don't get mad and sue me when I post it up on my site or an edited version of it.
Mom at Home I understand where you are coming from. Your advice should be listened to by all. I just wanted to see some logos since everyone had an opinion about the current one it seems.
Trackback URL: http://9rules.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.cgi/226
Here you go Paul, your very own Whitespace t-shirt.
man, I love the displacement filter
:)
Bryan
Bryan (http://www.gamecubecheats.info)
I never meant to say that I thought you were screwing anyone over. You were very up front about it, and I know what it's like to tiptoe around lawyers. And it's not about profit. I do a ton of probono and volunteer work. But the people I volunteer for do not have the right to take my work and edit it for other purposes. This isn't an idea for a logo, it's the logo itself. There's a line, and this is my opinion.
I hope you get lots of wonderful entries and a great logo out of it. It was the fact that you said you would take the right to change it and use it elsewhere that bothered me and I felt necessary to comment on. If you do end up getting something that you can change and use for other purposes down the line, I hope you think about appropriately compensating the designer. :-)
Um, the last I heard...open-source doesn't mean that you can rewrite and use as you wish. But that's another topic.
Judi (http://www.momathome.com)
Um, the last I heard...open-source doesn't mean that you can rewrite and use as you wish. But that's another topic.
Actually, the GNU General Public license says almost exactly that, with the gotcha that you have to release your contribution/rewrite under the GPL too. But I don’t want to go off topic here.
As for this contest, I think it’s fine legally. All I would expect if I were to enter this contest is a byline somewhere saying “I did this logo/page/whatever”, but I wouldn’t expect to retain rights. Call me naive.
Vinnie Garcia (http://blog.vinniegarcia.com)
wouldn't the ideal whitespace tee simply be a plain white shirt? Maybe with a box of markers hanging off the back? heh... I went to a hallowe'en party once where someone went as a graffiti-covered bathroom stall... placard on front and back, markers on one side, TP on the other, invited people to write on him. So... I kinda stole the idea. :-)
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
[quote]Um, the last I heard...open-source doesn't mean that you can rewrite and use as you wish. But that's another topic.[/quote]
As Vinnie said, open-source means you can take the code and rewrite it/build upon it, providing you license it under the GPL. Thank goodness some people have got the right idea :) Life is about learning/sharing.
JC: White space doesn't have to be white lol. It's just space. Therefore, he could have a selection of different coloured t-shirts for people to choose from with - White Space - Content is Everything (or something similar) printed on it :P
Robert Lofthouse
JC -
If I can take your idea and tweek it a bit :0
How about more simply (since minimalism is at stake here) using a plain white pocket tee complete w/marker in the pocket.
Mark (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
If you really think someone would pay for some Whitespace schwag then hell, lemme know what I should sell.
Try looking at Cafe Shops I would but white space schwag.
Things I would buy:
1. Clock
2. Journal
3. T-Shirt
4. Messenger Bag
5. Large Mug (I already have a starbuks one, very big)
6. Mousepad (if i didn't have a optical mouse)
Matthew (http://blog.matthewroach.co.uk)
I always knew you'd reveal your malevolent plans sooner or later you... bad person, you!
Taking over the world under are collective noses, are you?
Sergio (http://overcaffeinated.net)
Mark -- even better... just include a slip of plain white paper in the shirt pocket... you can give yourself a papercut and draw with blood on your blank canvas. Or maybe just... nothing...a nd you induce yourself to sweat in interesting patterns.... ok, maybe that's taking it a little too far. :-)
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
JC -
Do remember hypercolor t-shirts? They were all about sweating in interesting patterns and colors.
Could bring back a fashion trend from the 90's.
Mark (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
[quote]They were all about sweating in interesting patterns and colors.[/quote]
Could be a huge hit with us geeks.
"Robert, why haven't you changed that t-shirt for several weeks"
"I'm trying to be the first person in the world to create magenta from my own sweat."
On the plus side, you could also see what colours go together by simply lifting your armpit.
Maybe I missed the point :P
Robert Lofthouse
"...Could be a huge hit with us geeks...
Robert -
You must've missed it. They already have been a huge hit w/the geeks.
It really wasn't as difficult as you might think to create magenta from your own sweat / body heat. In fact, my lite blue hypercolor shirt would turn completely magenta just from being in the dryer.
Anyway, I'm straying from the topic at hand - apologies.
Mark (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
lol, It was simply a random colour picked on the fly :P I'm gothic, so most forms of fashion (including geek) go completely unnoticed by me :P
Anyways, i'll let the discussion continue to get back on track.
Robert Lofthouse
heh... it wasn't the sweat, actually, it was the temperatures, I think. I remember the big thing was to convince the girls to leave handprints on their chests, which soon resulted in a school-wide ban of the brand.
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
heh, JC, I did the handprint thing with my hypercolor shirt. Though, I'd always put mine in the dryer to make it change colors.
the logo contest will be great.like someone said, its volunteer and the books are a good incentive. there's also a difference between "rights" and "copyright". Everytime we do a project for a client, we give them rights to use the work, right? But copyright always belongs to us, the creator.
eris (http://www.erisfree.com)
Didn't think you'd need a lawyer for this, eh, Paul? :-)
I think I have a contract template at home that'll cover what you're looking for. I'll dig it up and email it to you... you can require people agree to it before submitting or something... basically they retain copyright but grant you unlimited rights, public & private for any usage and creation of derivative works, and so on and so forth. I also have one for transfer of copyright, but I think you'll find less support for that one. :-)
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
Surely a creative commons license would cover the same things as that contract? Only it would be us setting the license, so that he could use/modify the logo in any way he wants, however we'd keep the copyright. Either way, i'm not fussed.
Robert Lofthouse
um, no? A creative commons license would license *everyone* to use the item. It's not intended for licensing to individual.. hence 'commons'.
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
Indeed, sorry.. I was tired when I posted that. I think a redesign of a logo, that's supposed to be done by May 7th is pointless is we have to go through the whole contract thing.
If it's just for fun, then it should be treated that way.
In order for a contract to be brought into it, you'd surely need a signed copy of the agreement, otherwise it's pointless.
Robert Lofthouse
actually, when I was typing out what hte contract was for, I was thinking... "hell, he could just use a creative commons... oh.. yeah... nope." so you're not alone. :-)
was the deadline that soon? I guess I missed that part. I would have expected at least 2 weeks.
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
Create a logo and submit it by Friday (May 7th) 11:59 Eastern.
Yeah, he either feels that a. A logo doesn't need as much time as the homepage of a website or b. his website needs a new logo as quickly as possible, for some reason or another.
I think at the moment his logo conveys the website's name quite well, but not the content inside. So i'm trying to focus on that instead. (Sorry, but I don't mind sharing information about my thoughts lol).
Robert Lofthouse
I really look forward to seeing the results of this rather short logo contest.
Likewise, I feel the logo conveys itself quite well but to each his own. We all have our own opinions. Whitespace swag would be awesome.
I keep thinking I could be wearing a white space t-shirt with a copy of Zeldman's orange book in one hand and Eric Meyer on CSS in the other. This could be the ten commandments of CSS and web design.
kartooner (http://www.kartooner.com)
Like some before me commented, I like the logo the way it is. Simple, nice colours, little illustration.
So, unless the rules are bent and I submit the current logo, I won't be participating.
Which isn't a huge surprise when it comes to me participating in a contest with a deadline. I almost never make it anyway.
Jarek Piórkowski (http://unt.qviri.net/)
besides the big names like how and ID does anyone know of any annual web design contests?
Dan Wulfing (http://www.danwulfing.com)
I also agree that your logo is minimalist... because your site is -- why worry about changing that?
I'd be honest, I and the designers I work with were excited about trying some designs out for you... but 'edited version' would not be good with any of us. As soon as you edited it, then it's not our design and not worth putting in our portfolio -- similar to an editor rewriting my work without telling me.
It's nothing personal, it would just piss me off, and I appreciate you telling that in your post -- most people don't say a word about it.
But if I were to do a whitespace t-shirt, I'd probably make the whole t-shirt a light gray with one white box in the middle. Minimalist. Done. Everyone would love it or hate it:)
Brady J. Frey (http://www.dotfive.com)
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#1
I do redesign contests to learn. I think "mom at home" is right, but that only applies if the person is hell bent on making a profit from everything they do. If i'm doing something for fun, and someone decides to use that work, I have no problems with them using it. At the end of the day it will be an addition to my portfolio, which a client will see, and THEY can pay me money for my PROFESSIONAL services.
I come from the open-source/hacker culture. I prefer to share knowledge and help others, than make profit and patent every single thing I do.
If scrivs had come to me and said: "Robert, will you design a new logo for me and give my site a brand", then professionally I would say: "Yes, here is a contract and here are my fees".
One of the things I thrive on is learning, so from this redesign I will:
1. Learn from making the logo, and
2. Learn from the 3 books if I win the contest.
If I don't win the contest, then I still learnt something. There is no losing really.
Robert Lofthouse