January 12, 2005 | View Comments (42) | Category: Our Thoughts
Summary: The community has become boring now. Everything has been talked about. All this and more excuses from me.
Has anyone else noticed that there has been a slight drop in the amount of blogging that the big guys have been doing with their sites as of late? Even worse has anyone noticed that entries involving real-life web design have basically dropped to nil? Mike Papageorge and myself were joking the other day about this and have come to the conclusion that in 2004 all of the world's web design problems were solved.
Okay maybe not all of them, but there was so much ground covered that if you maintain a web design blog I would think that it has become extremely hard to talk about web design without actually repeating yourself or someone else. This doesn't excuse the lack of updates seen here, but even if there were updates here I am not sure that there would be anything new to say. Sure not all sites validate (does that matter?). Sure not every site uses CSS. Overall though these topics have been discussed.
Every issue that I think of I have talked about before. I feel like I am taking the same college class for the fourth time in a row.
When I first started blogging I remember how fun it was because there were so many things I wanted to talk about concerning this community. Blogging was exciting to me and that motivated me to write on an almost daily basis. It's still exciting for me with regards to other sites, but with web design I feel like the era of 'talking' is over and its time to move on to the era of 'action'.
Our community has grown boring (just a personal opinion). I have become boring (hell I was probably always boring). The people are great, but maybe since I have been around it for over 18 months now the everything has lost its luster.
Please tell me I am wrong.
(Of course all this post does is motivate me to change things and make it less boring, but that's what self-motivation is all about right?)
UPDATE: I forgot to put in the obligatory this is not a bitching or moaning entry statement so...this is not a bitching or moaning entry because I do have real design content coming tomorrow.
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Depends on the community you're talking about. In the case of design and CSS, I would agree that things have slowed down. But that's really not a bad thing since a large part of the community is understanding these newer parts of the craft for the first time and need to catch up.
However I think the SEO, CMS, blog, UX and broader business discussions are picking up and seem to be taking center stage in the coming year. The discussion isn't decreasing, its just getting broader in scope and including more people, new, different people.
Sean King (http://inspirednonsense.com)
I agree Sean and that's why I tried to emphasize that its just this community (web design/CSS) that seems to have slowed down. The SEO discussions will never cease because search engines constantly change and people are trying to outdo one another.
I guess I should change it to XHTML web design, because I am fairly certain that the Flash discussion aren't slowing down at all.
Scrivs (http://9rules.com/)
I'm afraid you're not wrong. It has become a little boring, as all that are in the CSS/XHTML-desing'-osphere' probably are 'ready' now. We can all find what we need to find or know.
There is however some work to do on aggregating all this knowledge for those stepping into this world, like I have recently. Everybody has now made up their minds about these topics, now to broadcast it and spread the word.
Arjan van der Gaag (http://www.arjanvandergaag.nl)
It depends on what you mean by "web design". For me, topics like usability and information architecture are included. These are getting a lot of attention lately.
What kind of article are you looking for?
O, I'm not surprised that the big guys haven't been blogging much lately. It's just after the Christmas lull... lots of work to do.
David Barrett (http://dave.antidisinformation.com/)
I don't want to say Boring is the word, but all the topics have been pounded into submission.
What DOES bother me, though, is that sites like the Css Vault, Css Beauty, Styla Gala, and more DO NOT update very regularly, and we all know you site owners running them are pounded with submissions everyday.
I know alot of the designs are boring or look the same, but shit, at least let the sites update with a few of them everyday. The Css Vault had an update last week sometime, but they come in "sprints" where maybe 5-10 sites (including the Noteworthy) are listed, then a couple weeks of nothing.
It gets depressing to those who are interested in getting their sites seen.
I remember when the cssvault came out. EVERYONE was excited about it and everyone and their mother probably submitted a site. Sure the demand was overwhelming, but at the time, the site stayed up to date. Now full weeks go by with MAYBE 1 update or none. I understand that blogging ABOUT design and web stuff is slowing down, but there are still incredible and clean css designs coming out everyday. I don't think there is any reason to STOP showing those on a continual basis.
Paul, I am sure you are making PLENTY of money off your sites. I am not sure if you have anyone helping you with Vault submissions, but hell, I am sure you could probably get someone to do it cheaply. Pay em like 50 bucks a week or something just to insert 5 entries a day.
I am curious, though. Has your traffic gone up or died down since updates on the Vault have slowed to a crawl?
Sorry, I hope I don't sound like I am bitching. Just frustrated to see alot of these great sites come to a halt. Whether its simplebits, mezzoblue, 9rules, or whatever, yea it sucks nobody has anything to talk about anymore.
It started with Zeldman (constant blogging then stopping)and has just filtered its way into the community. Its quite a bummer.
I guess I am glad I don't talk about design stuff soley on my blog as it allows me to keep content coming.
anyways, that is my 2 cents on the issue.
Bryan (http://www.juicedthoughts.com)
Well I can't speak for usability since I don't visit that topic too often, but IA can fall under web design so maybe more of it should be done here. However, talking about IA and making it interesting usually involves talking about large and complex sites. Talking about IA and blogs just doesn't cut it.
And the big guys (and many others) have dropped way before Xmas David so I don't think it's a lull. More like a transition.
Scrivs (http://9rules.com/)
I think you also have to take into the account that the "big guys" have been taking on more work professionally and personally in the past year. Zeldman had a baby AND, from all appearances, his client work has picked up with Happy Cog. Eric Meyer had a baby and started up his consulting firm.
In the meantime, the community of blogs that talk about standards on a regular basis has increased exponentially throught the entire year, so there is more information out there, and more places to get that information. You don't have to rely strictly on ALA, Zeldman, etc.
Jeremy Flint (http://www.jeremyflint.com)
Has anyone else noticed that there has been a slight drop in the amount of blogging that the big guys have been doing with their sites as of late?
Paul, people are busy, out there in the real world building websites. Success brings clients, clients bring new jobs. New jobs bring deadlines. Deadlines take precedence over writing blogs.
Or maybe I'm wrong.
Colly (http://www.collylogic.com)
Bryan: It's not the lack of updates...it's the lack of quality coming in. I am sure all the gallery sites would say the same thing.
Jeremy: I was waiting for that point to come up. I didn't want to say the whole blogosphere isn't updating regularly because I am sure that is not true. However, new and interesting content is still lack and I am not even talking about from the big guys. It's great to see thousands more sites popup that focus on CSS and design, but which ones are bringing something new to the table?
Scrivs (http://9rules.com/)
If the web design community has reached a plateau, maybe it's time to expand the web design community. Invite browser developers, experts from other design communities, marketers, etc. to join the fray.
I think there's not much being said because everyone's had their piece. It's sort of like an old married couple who look at each other lovingly but with nothing to say. I say it's time for the neighbours to join us for dinner.
Agustin
So, does the quality coming in have to "out do" the current quality to be considered?
I can understand if all your submissions are BLOCK Designs using no graphics and look ugly, but are ALL of them like that?
With all due respect, when I think of the css vault, I think of it as a directory to css designs. Not a directory to the BEST css designs. That is what things like Web Standards Awards and what not are for.
How many submissions do you get a day?
Bryan (http://www.juicedthoughts.com)
I agree with Jeremy. 2004 was a huge year for changes and transition within this community--remember how people were joking that everyone was either getting married or having a baby at the same time? Moving across continents, countries, regions, etc. to start exciting new projects? The age demographic of designers in this community is pretty small, and thus, similar life-altering things happen at the same time like I outlined above. So, priorities begin to change and certain projects people had time for before are now put in the backburner for, well, life.
Which makes me wonder, though, where the next generation whizzes are. They're there, but when they surface, there'll probably be another mini web renaissance.
The web has always had a certain ebb and flow. It seems like it's dying down, but I like to think it may just be the calm before the storm. We can't be going 100% all the time. Then there's no build up to a climax. ;-) And we all know that it's the journey, not the end result, that's fun [/cliches].
Lea (http://www.lealea.net/)
Paul, people are busy, out there in the real world building websites. Success brings clients, clients bring new jobs. New jobs bring deadlines. Deadlines take precedence over writing blogs.
So everyone got busy at the same time and were unbusy (nice word) at the same time before? Hmm...and yes people do get busy as do I. Thanks for that knowledge though.
The point is there are a large number of web design sites and rarely are we seeing any new web design content. I am not focusing on Zeldman, Shea, Bowman. I am focusing on the whole damn community.
Scrivs (http://9rules.com/)
How about this Bryan, I will post all the submission I get today in an entry tomorrow for you to see?
(Damn now watch today have 6 great submissions)
Scrivs (http://9rules.com/)
This is all just a natural order of events. Discussion is always most active with technologies that have room for much innovation; 2004 was a very innovative year for CSS & web standards.
So we've mastered markup, now let's find some other new land to conquer. There are plenty of other territories to explore, such as handhelds and DOM scripting. I know that this year I'd like to learn much more about XSLT. I, for one, would love to see a standards-compliant CMS be developed around a simple CSS/XML/XSLT framework.
andrew (http://compooter.org)
"...So everyone got busy at the same time and were unbusy (nice word) at the same time before? Hmm...
Sure. I would say you're seeing mob mentality at work here. You get a few influential bloggers in the “community” who are getting on with their lives (having kids, getting corporate jobs, ramping up consultancies...) and lowering the quality or consistency in their writing, and you’ll have others follow.
Mark (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
andrew: Typeworks might fit the bill.
Mark: Hmm well this mob mentality just won't do. We can all count on you to up the ante :-) so you better get started.
Scrivs (http://9rules.com/)
Yeah, it's been quiet.
While I agree with you to a point, I don't think it's only lack of topics. It's a lack of time. I've got all sorts of things in my head to talk about. I just don't have time anymore. As well, I've been putting in to practice many of the ideas I've had over the last year and had not been able to use. It's hard work brother.
I was just talking to Greg Storey, Cameron Moll, & Andrei H. about our panel at SXSW and we're changing the topic based on the very things you talk about. We're all so damn busy it's hard to get together on something and we don't want to cover the same ol' same ol'.
Blogging, as far as the Web design community goes, is almost old hat. Couple that with the fact that there is more work and you've got the answer right there.
Oh and Halo2 and World of Warcraft came out -- that could have something to do with it.
Keith (http://www.7nights.com/asterisk/)
Oh and Halo2 and World of Warcraft came out -- that could have something to do with it.
You speak the truth...
Scrivs (http://9rules.com/)
I think people are starting to realise that blogging in the web community is, as Keith says, a bit old hat (and yes, we're all too busy to blog). Folks are starting to ENJOY their blogs, with more emphasis on the 'journal' aspect - posts about life, family, events, culture, leisure and so on, with documentation through photos etc. Write about the web when you find something new or have a relevant opinion, but otherwise, write about life. It'll make much more fun reading in ten years time.
Do we really expect to find the wheel has been reinvented every time we visit an influential blog? That's a lot of pressure for individuals to bare.
And anyway, think about what is happening 'off-blog'. I know from personal experience that individuals are communicating away from websites, talking face-to-face, exploring new avenues for collaboration and exploration that will, when revealed, be of potentially greater benefit than blog-posts have become. Think collaborative sites, showcases, conferences, forums, web applications etc...
Can't we remain positive?
Colly (http://www.collylogic.com)
Yeah 'real-world' activity is definitely moving at a fevered pace. With fantasy football I have come into contact with more designers and have daily conversations with many of them. I am not looking for the quantity that we saw in the past, but the quality doesn't seem to be there either (note when I say these things I look at myself first and foremost).
What I am very happy about is that because of 2004 all the new people entering our world have way more resources than we could have ever hoped for in the past.
Scrivs (http://9rules.com/)
Agreed Paul. The individual components may change or be more/less relevant at a particular time, but as a whole, things are very positive. Imagine being a newcomer and having everything from Basecamp to CSS Vault to all the archived blog posts to bloody iPod-based CSS resources.
I say well done to everyone who has contributed a resource for designers, however small, because together we have a hell of a lot to lean back on.
Colly (http://www.collylogic.com)
I think you're both right and wrong. Yes, we (the "community") have covered many issues already.
However, that doesn't necessarily mean that we've covered them thoroughly enough. It also doesn't mean that everybody knows what people reading the web standards related blogs know. Not even those who do read these blogs know everything there is to know about HTML and CSS. Not even the people who write the articles we read know everything. Far from it.
What I'm getting at is that the more good information there is, the greater the chance that people new to web design/development, or web professionals who don't read blogs (and there are many) find good (as in recent and correct) information on how to solve their problems when they search Google.
And there is much more to discuss when it comes to accessibility, usability, semantics, modern use of unobtrusive JavaScript, etc, etc.
Btw I think Joe Clark's article in the latest ALA issue is excellent. So there (this is to comment #1).
Roger Johansson (http://www.456bereastreet.com)
I don't think things on the CSS/HTML front are too quiet. I think they were previously too loud. How many times can you discuss the benefits of dropping tables?
My posting frequency has actually *increased* lately, but that's partly because I just don't like writing about web standards until there is a compelling reason to. It's an important part of web design and development, but it's not exactly "exciting". If web standards are the only thing someone feels qualified and excited to write about, well that person's blog ain't gonna last too long.
There are so many other things to write about. Nigerian e-mail scams, MacWorld Expo, trends in internet advertising, etc, etc, etc. Write about *new* stuff... not just the same rigamarole everyone else has been talking to death for the last couple of years.
Mike D. (http://www.mikeindustries.com)
I think the web design blosphere for 2005 will have to depend on good writing.
Reading tutorials and hacks and fixes and workarounds and all that good juicy stuff (that honestly was still very cool), one I think would now have to be funny, or at least have some sense of humor for me to keep interest.
I've also noticed that most web design blogs are incorporating more stuff about life.
You have a very valid point though. Tis true it feels like we've solved most the life's problems in the web dev world. I mean, what's going to happen when all browsers support standards completely?
All in all, this is one part of life where you just have to pat yourself on the back and say "Good Job us!"
If only the rest of the world did it just like we do.
<example sidenote>
I was at Kaiser Med Center the other day to get a checkup, and their staff and practices are weak. Their advice is nothing I've never heard before like "take advil" or "don't do 'this and that' for 30 days." And to think that there has been doctor's for thousands of years.
</example sidenote>
Conclusion: We do it better and faster on the web.
Dustin Diaz (http://www.dustindiaz.com)
I've steered off from most of these blogs for a bit -- and I think it's more the designer in me than anything.
I've started to go back to my roots; reading and listening to designers in all spectrums of the business -- not just so much CSS/XHTML. It's something I've always felt, but it has started to bug me more and more -- while I receive great information in regards to web coding practices and techniques from these sites, I very little find any real indepth discussion regarding design.
I think Mike D has it right -- web standards are important, but they are not the only subject to touch here... it's the very reason why I've spent more time reading and writing for graphic design as an advancement than just the coding practices of the web. This is like any subject, the hot topics have been exhausted, now it's time to move things forward; teaching the newbies on the way.
Brady J. Frey (http://www.dotfive.com)
I agree Roger and there are some topics I am looking into stretching into and covering in more depth. There is still stuff to write about of course, but my mindset has to shift a bit.
Scrivs (http://9rules.com/)
Scrivs, I'm no where close to being a web design guru, but with help from a few friends, I've been able to get my own personal site up and running. I've learned an enormous amount thanks to the hundreds of tutorials and articles that I see from sites like the ones linked on this page. Maybe the community has become quiet or boring to some, but to me, a beginner, it is very very loud and busy. It's something I wished I knew about several years ago so I wouldn't feel behind. But the wonderful thing is that there's wonderful people to help me catch up.
Henry (http://www.cityofsolitude.com/)
Ha, well said Scrivs.
Things are quiet and what once was a noisy community has become, I suppose, a busy community. Good for us, except when it's 3am and you're stuck on a design/function/piece of copy and you want to go and read something interesting and there's not much new out there!! ;-)
Mike P. (http://www.fiftyfoureleven.com/sandbox/weblog/)
I'm actually glad that people talk less about standards. There comes a point when 90% of what is said should be common knowledge.
I'd like to start seeing more emphasis being put on design. Period. That is what I'd be interested in. Right now, the part of the web that Paul is describing is pretty dead. I'm kind of more interested hearing people talk about thier hang nails.
Fernando Dunn II (http://fdiidesign.com/)
Derek Featherstone noted a while back that while it may seem to all of us A-list-guru-blog-reading CSS-elite that every design subject under the sun has been covered and there is nothing left to talk about, there are still far too many designers who continue to get it wrong, and the education process has to continue.
Tommy Olsson is just one example of a guy doing a great job of writing up detailed CSS/XHTML tutorials and how-to guides - so what if the information is already on half-a-dozen other blogs? One more well-written article is never going to be a bad thing.
Matthew Pennell (http://www.thewatchmakerproject.com/)
I would agree with most here that the frequency of quality posting has declined over the last year. I found myself going to find other blogs that posted more consistently. It's like you get hooked when someone stays on something good and intriguing about design. Anyone remember SimpleQuiz???
With more and more blogs being created every day, I think that someone will come forth with some neat new CSS/XHTML techniques. Recently, I'd have to say that sIFR isn't too shabby a thing, and something with a lot of potential for use, and potential unforseen new uses.
In any event, it has been refreshing to see Zeldman posting regularly again.
Jason (http://www.jasonspage.net/blog/)
I totally agree with you on the point of a lack of published webdesign posts. Although, as noted before, so much ground has been covered.
2004 was a big reading and learning year for me, and now all fresh content (not designs) seem to have been covered for me; this is probably a good thing though.
Consolidation of texts, hacks and techniques would be nice too see, and a general spring clean of the web would be nice too; there are still many, many (mainly large corperate) sites using tables etc for the wrong reason.
Accessability popped up near the end of the year, and seems to have been covered swiftly and completely.
Blogs and sites have been re-designed, new ideas, such as the checkbox on link hover / visited have been great, and many sites have become established. It truely was a year of blog design, which I personally like, others may not.
With IE's usage falling, and Firefox's building, I hope we can see a cleaning out of hacks and compliance problems, or at least an effort to upgrade browsers' users' choices, and look forward to CSS 3 support creeping in.
Now that every site under the sun (we hope) is being designed with accessability and validation (:S) in mind, we really need to move on past this, and think where we can go from here.
Personally, I have no idea, but can't wait to get there!
daveeee
daveeee (http://#)
Personally, in terms of the internet and web design/dev field in general there are so many more things to discuss.
I can't speak about the business of other people but there are so many things that still need to be tackled, just be creative and forward thinking.
Does anyone know where "this" is all going?
El Capitan
Some of us no longer blog about design issues because our employer now enforces their ridiculous policy that no data, content, code or design is allowed to leave the office computers.
That includes talking to others online about tricky design or coding issues that you may need help with.
Kind of restricts what we can actually say about the design process on our blog, except perhaps that our employer is an ass. (As in donkey.)
I dont want to get fired
Some of us no longer blog about design issues because our employer now enforces their ridiculous policy that no data, content, code or design is allowed to leave the office computers.
Dude, do we work for the same company?
For reals though!
More on that, to a more appropriate level, how can you restrict knowledge on the things that are client side like css xhtml and dom?
At least server side scripts might be worth not talking about since they actually can be hidden to the user.
Dustin Diaz (http://www.dustindiaz.com)
I would leave that company ASAP if possible as they definitly don't have the best interest in becoming a better company.
By you being able to get help and/or give help, you are bettering yourself and building more on the skills you possess.
Your boss is a dickhead IMO if what you say is true.
Shit, assuming the price isn't too high, I often can do some freelance work on the side.
The only time my boss gets upset is if the server logs notice I have been going to my personal log too much in a day. It has been brought to my attention one time, and so I limit my visits to about 2 times a day to my site. But they don't give a shit what I talk about as long as I am not sandblasting the company.
Bryan (http://www.juicedthoughts.com)
I'm a little late to this discussion, but I think it'd be nice for people to write about actual designs for a change. Cameron Moll's series on 'That Wicked Worn Look' is the last time I think I saw anything on actual design. ALA has gotten lackluster. Everything has gotten lackluster. I don't think the luster has gone, Scrivs, I think it's just become tarnished. It's become tarnished by all of the sites that look like everyone else's sites. I'm starting to feel it too — even with my own site. Of course I'm planning a redesign for May, but I guess that means I have to get writing my CMS, because I won't want to update that sucker by hand :) (I'm half updating the current site by hand...i.e. adding images and amazon links and so forth...not to mention all of the static content)
Joe Clay (http://www.gra-phix.com/)
Mmmmmmmm....
This is all very interesting. It seems to me (and I may be wrong) that there are a lot of good sites out there posting on CSS design techniques and coming up with new fresh content, it's just that it's no longer a handful of gurus, but a whole new field of second generation CSS boffins who are full of enthusiasm and ideas.
These people are the ones posting interesting articles on technique and design while Zeldman posts about his new baby (and he's not the only one, not that there's anything wrong with that of course). This is a good thing and not unexpected if you think about it. And come on people, this stuff has only been around for a few years.
There's obviously a lot more to talk about. AND a need for COMPREHENSIVE guides on the web that can take designers new to CSS step by step through all the basic techniques and problems of constructing simple, elegant layouts.
My two cents.
Craig Snyder (http://etherealcode.blogspot.com/)
I think design bloggers are just tired of seeing CSS all day long, so they've stopped contributing to it. I know I stopped writing much in detail on CSS over the last 4 months or so and have focused on other things, like the business side of web design, or the reasoning behind why certain techniques should/shouldn't be used rather than a straight tutorial.
There has been a lot said about CSS, and I'm sure others will be able to add their two cents in as well, but I think this year will see more of a diversification on the topics discussed, or at least that's what I'm hoping.
Vinnie Garcia (http://ibebloggin.com/)
Don't let it get to your head. If you do before you know it, all will have passed. There's no "end" to anything.
steve
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#1
I've been feeling the exact same way lately. The new trend I see lately involves "highlighting" past issues, creating top 10 lists of browser bugs, etc.
Seen the latest issue of ALA? Poo-poo I say.
seth (http://thegeeklystandard.com)