19 people says things!

1. Please not another design contest! When you ask people to give you design spec work all it does is devalue design. Hire a graphic designer and pay them! You could probably even find a designer who would only charge $300. This site seems to have a design emphasis, so I can’t understand why you would promote something that encourages bad design practice.

   How is this going to get your readers more involved? By wasting their time? If you really respect your readers you wouldn’t ask them to give you free design that you are just going to throw away in the end. Here are some constructive ways to get them involved in the logo process. After you hire a designer, take your three favorite logo variations and have your readers vote on the best one.

   Another idea would be to ask another blog that specializes in logo design and critique to partner with you for your new identity. That site would probably do it for free and this would help educate people about how logos are developed. The whole process could be publicly documented and open to reader comments and questions. Everybody wins. This would be much better than rejecting the hard work of all but one of your readers.

   If anyone is curious about where this rant is coming from there is a logo contest discussion archived at Be A Design Group.

   By Adrian Hanft on May 27, 2007 1:59 pm

2. Adrian, I fully appreciate where you’re coming from and I do understand your point – I’ve been on the other side of the fence myself.

   I already have a group of designers that I normally turn to for most logo projects, but from time to time I like to bring additional folks on board.

   It’s a sad fact that there are a lot of designers out there that ‘steal’ logos for their own portfolio in order to get the job, and you soon realize that their talents fall short when it comes to your own project.

   I’m not trying to devalue designers at all, far from it. If my intention was purely to get a job ‘on the cheap’, I’m sure I could create the post at sitepoint, offer $125 and probably get some pretty decent work submitted. I decided upon this route because a good section of the audience will have the ability to come up with something we can use – and, more importantly, showcase their own work to everyone else.

   I would like to invite comments from other readers on their views here – if the idea of a contest is unpopular, I will go with Adrians suggestion.

   By Lee on May 27, 2007 2:13 pm

3. @Lee – I would personally like to see it done using your method. It’s hard enough for young designers to make a name for themselves, and what better way to do just showcase their work in front of a large audience.

   @Adrian – No disrespect, but to me what you are saying sounds a lot like you are saying “Why go with small business, they are irrelevant and bad at what they do? Instead you should go with big business and all it’s money and resources.”

   If a design firm wants to participate they are more then welcome if they win they will get paid. Why shut out your own readers from the opportunity when in fact they might come up with a better design then the firm?

   To me that doesn’t make it any better in fact makes it worse by limiting the number of available options.

   By Kyle on May 27, 2007 2:35 pm

4. Didn’t you just do a wisdump logo contest a few months ago and that is how you got the circular “Wario” W type look you have now?

   By Martin Ringlein on May 27, 2007 5:31 pm

5. @Martin – That was prior to Scrivs selling the site to me, and wasn’t a contest as such – more a case of him asking for ideas.

   By Lee on May 27, 2007 5:39 pm

6. We believe that Adrian makes a good point in that paying someone to take on the project would certainly produce a final piece that would be more tailored to Lee’s specific needs, especially as a good designer would continue fine-tuning the design until it was exactly as the client wanted it.

   However, opening the project up to a community in this way certainly attracts some interest (as this is the first post that we have commented-on, and will certainly be keeping a close eye on what happens) as well as generating a multitude of ideas for Lee to choose from – some of which he may not have ever dreamed off to start with…

   Either way, it would be an excellent idea for Lee to create some kind of initial specification-sheet, outlining the project in more relative detail as it would be in a real-world scenario:

   Will the logo be used on this same site (theme)?
   Will a new theme be created for the logo?
   Are there specific colours that must be included or avoided?

   There many questions that could be asked or answers that could be provided that would certainly increase the chances of a concept coming your way that is something you really want to see, as opposed to something that the designers wants to see, and even still, it would create a strong sense of community…

   For US$ 300 and a link-back, which is the equivalent of over RM 1,000 we would like to think that the designer would not only get your logo designed, but would also throw in a new theme to go with it, but again, that goes back to Adrian’s comment and the fact that that’s a lot to ask from a lot of people, especially if the US$ 300 is not guaranteed…

   How are the results looking so far…?

   By NI-LIMITS on May 27, 2007 8:15 pm

7. I think that this is a fantastic idea and as a new designer, I might just send something in. I dont think that it always is the best thing to call in the big firm and “get it done right”. If the goal of Wisdump is to have a community of bloggers, then the community should want to assist in the logo. It is not as if Lee is asking for free work, rather, he is building community spirit by giving those a chance to get involved and giving away a prize.

   By Chris Gross on May 27, 2007 11:52 pm

8. As one who is just staring a small graphics business, I must agree with Kyle. Contest like this are a big help in getting our work out.
   @Lee: Do you have any color,size or other specs that should be included? Also thank you in advancve for this chance!

   By Dancam on May 28, 2007 12:53 am

9. I can see Adrian’s point. I’m all for No Spec work, but if you’re going to get yourself the logo you’re looking for, you at least need to provide a graphic design brief.

   I’ve linked my name to some pointers.

   By David Airey :: Creative Design :: on May 28, 2007 10:07 am

10. Thanks for all the comments so far. As requested, I’ve added a few pointers on what I see as being the requirements. It’s by no means a complete brief, so if anyone has any specific questions feel free to ask away.

    By Lee on May 28, 2007 10:22 am

11. All I have to say is: rawr, embroidery.

    By Spooky on May 28, 2007 11:17 am

12. Just call the guys over at LogoMaid. HAHA!!!

    By Andrew on May 29, 2007 9:45 am

13. I think its a great idea. I saw other sites have similar competitions and the outcome was really good.

    I might aswell give it a try.

    By gretzky on May 30, 2007 9:42 am

14. I’ve got to go with Adrian here. Spec work is a raw deal for designers. I understand the desire to get the community involved, and frankly, to get a logo cheap – but you may be doing more damage than good here.

    First of all, you’re going to piss off a lot of professional designers with this move. As I’m sure you know, there are more than a couple of us that make up your readership. This undermines your credibility with them severely. Make no mistake – it’s a topic that is throughly discussed among designers and most have their minds made up.

    Secondly, every time someone does one of these contests and gets a lot of entries, you have to consider all the work that you just solicited. Only the work of one lucky winner will ever be “paid for”, and you run the risk of alienating all of those other contestants who just threw their time away. Hundreds, if not thousands, of man-hours collectively. Sure, it’s their fault for entering in the first place. But now you “don’t get my vision”, you don’t see things the way I do and I’m likely to feel less connection to your point of view. And if they haven’t put that much thought into it, it was a crap logo to begin with :)

    Not trying to slag you here – just want to offer a point of view that maybe hasn’t been considered yet.

    By Lail on June 1, 2007 1:15 pm

15. @Lail – I do understand that point of view, I really do. My personal background is application development and I lost count of the number of times someone came to me and said ‘Do this little job for free and if its good we’ll give you loads of work’. Of course, the extra paid work never materializes.

    On the other side of the fence though, I started out by always going direct to a designer and choosing based on their portfolio. In the 3 instances I did this (all different designers), not one of them came up with something anywhere near the quality of the work shown in the portfolio.

    In terms of the contest here, it’s worth noting that I will not be judging the entries – the readership will. I would hope that even for those that don’t get the backing of the readers, it still gives the little guy trying to build a name for himself an opportunity to showcase what they can do.

    By Lee on June 1, 2007 1:37 pm

16. Fair enough. I appreciate both the points you make. I certainly agree about the gap between portfolios and actual results. It’s hard to shop for good designers based on just their public portfolio alone. Get a recommendation from someone you know who has a logo you admire, if you can.

    As for the readership judging the entries – I think that is a step in the right direction. I don’t know what you’re planning specifically, but I would encourage you to go all the way and display *all* the entries on the site for a time, along with names and a link. Possibly create a couple of runner up spots that will remain up in the blog post after the contest is over. This way, at least you can pay all the contestants *something* (e.g. visibility), even if it’s not money. Now if I were a younger designer coming up, I could at least attach a value to that, and in many cases that might be enough to get me interested.

    Also, I know that a lot of designers appreciate feedback, so you might entertain the idea of allowing a round of public commenting and a chance for the designers to make one round of revisions before voting starts. This would give the designers something else of value and let the non-designers among your readership be even more involved in the competition.

    In any case, I do wish you the best of luck and I hope there is a way that the contest can be structured to benefit both you and all of your readers who get involved.

    By Lail on June 1, 2007 2:35 pm

17. @Lail – thanks for your input. What you suggest is exactly what I have in mind. As you point out, it’s the best route to get people involved, whilst also providing a platform for constructive feedback and exposure.

    By Lee on June 1, 2007 2:40 pm

18. [...] As mentioned previously, Wisdump needs a new logo.  The following entries have been received and the choice is down to you. [...]

    By Wisdump Logo Contest - The entries are in! on June 9, 2007 9:03 am

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