April 09, 2004 | View Comments (13) | Category: 9rules
Summary: More thoughts on Redesign 2004.
Well yesterday proved to be a lively discussion huh? There were a lot of great ideas tossed around along with some very informative emails sent my way. I am sure some of you are getting frustrated by my lack of "official" plans so to speak, but I think there is so much potential as to what can be done more brainstorming will need to occur. In any case here are some more of my thoughts as to what will happen over the next couple of months.
Disclaimer: I like to try new things and that is what I am doing. I do not claim that I know everything that I am doing, but the only way for me to learn is by trying. You may witness a success story in the making or a complete failure, in any case I welcome you along for the ride.
If there is one site of mine that Mark seems to love it is the 9rules homepage. As I mentioned yesterday (trying to drop a hint) this site goes largely untouched. Here is what I said:
From a business perspective, any work comes from referrals and whatnot and since I am in the job hunt I had to consider how irrelevant the site was becoming in the grand scheme of things.
Store that in memory and let's move on.
These were the features that I mentioned I wanted to implement:
Everyone seemed to be in agreement that Whitespace should maintain its simplicity and focus. There were some opinions on how to create a layout that incorporated all of these features yet kept things simple. I think that would be way more trouble than its worth and also start to draw the focus away from the Whitespace main content. So what to do?
Start from scratch on the 9rules site and turn it into the portal for the 9rules Network. I could also incorporate the features listed above along with a page describing what the 9rules Network is about. With the use of RSS feeds I can always keep the latest content from all the sites on the portal and still allow people to visit the sites.
Now "portal" does not mean you have to pass through it to get to the other sites, but if I am going to have a 9rules Network setup, it only seems right to have a 9rules Network pages. 9rules.com shall serve that very purpose.
From this my mind starts to work overtime and I begin to see multiple opportunities, which I will discuss over time (there are a lot). Do you think I am on the right path?
Another general consensus seemed to be that the sites should offer some sort of consistency between them. For starters this consistency will come through with a 9rules Network logo on each site (unobtrusive). Each site might possibly also have a consistent footer that links to the other sites.
Making each site have the same look and feel was never an option because each of the sites are unique. I have already begun work on the new Forever Geek site and that design and layout are unique for that type of content. Next up will either be Whitespace or the CSS Vault. Which ever one is next I will make my design process public (oh hell).
That is all for now. I have yet to go to bed and all I can do is rap freestyle lyrics in my head thanks to Mike. This is my 200th entry. Thank you for making Whitespace what it is today (corny, but true).
Trackback URL: http://9rules.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.cgi/202
I could also incorporate the features listed above along with a page describing what the 9rules Network is about. With the use of RSS feeds I can always keep the latest content from all the sites on the portal and still allow people to visit the sites.
I think that does a good job of following the suggestions I was interested in yesterday -- there's something at 9rules.com to justify the "9rules network" name, but the focus also remains on the network's content (whitespace, css vault, forevergeek, etc.)
And just to be corny, thank you for making Whitespace what it is today. When I first bumped into 9rules.com long ago, I thought it was just some 37signals knockoff (didn't they have 37 actual signals to start with?), but you've transformed it, you've made Whitespace something I look forward to reading, and you've exploded into this network of sites people read and use regularly.
Very well done.
flexiblefine
Just for the record, I don't "love or "hate" the unmentionable site. I'll leave those kind of emotions toward your site to others. I can, however, appreciate what you're trying to do because I tried to do something similiar (albiet in a different medium) when I was 23 - some 18 years ago - and offer insight.
With that said, here we go -
Currently, I see no consistency in your message. When I visit one of the sites on Christin'a network, I know I'm visiting the site of an expert IA person, even if some of her posts do not directly address the issue directly. Same for 37 Signals, I know they are usability experts, because enough of the sites in their network deal with the issue even though they discuss all kinds of things on SVN.
On the 9R network currently, I'm presented with "I will", "I should", "They did", and "I could if." While your 9R circle understands where you're coming from, it's a garbled message outside these walls.
As far as setting up a portal - does anyone even visit the main site anymore? I usually come straight to a specific site and I would assume most everyone else does as well, or they pick it up as a feed. Given that, how are you going to format the portal to attract new readers? What's their motivation to drill deeper into your network going to be? Alternately, what's going to be the motivation of your present audience to go visit the portal?
Finally, what does any of this have to do with 9 rules? 9 rules of what?
Mark Fusco (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshw)
Mark: Obviously you are a professional and everything I am trying or have tried or mention trying you have done already so you like to offer your hindsight. Thank you as it proves a great help. I am assuming you learned from all of these experiences and I am trying to do the same.
Christina and 37Signals have specific interests and those are their specializations. Maybe one day there is one thing that I can point at and say that is going to be my focus from here on out, but I can't do that yet.
I get my Masters in 3 weeks and I am getting it because my interests in IT are broad. My sites are starting to reflect that. The topics discussed here are starting to reflect that. Does this prevent me from reaching guru status quickly? Of course it does, because what am I supposed to be a guru of? To offer a little more depth into myself, I am the type who would love to be a CIO one day, not a designer.
However, these are the kinds of things that I am "stupid" enough to try out now. Hell I think Fried was a Finance major in college. In any case that is what my sites represent.
The portal will offer certain features that the other sites will be missing and will also be maintenance free. Do people visit the site? Yes. Will more people visit it when I actually start linking to it? Yes.
I think you approaching this a whole business aspect while I am approaching it as something else. Maybe I should switch to your mindset.
One problem of always doing this open thinking process is that all my ideas never get out and most of the time this causes more questions than answers. I apologize for this, but this is how it has been working the past 6 months, so why stop now? I come up with an idea, either you guys bash it or improve upon it. Everything always works out in the end :)
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
Man I hate this comment system. You answer one comment and forget about the others.
Bryan: Yeah, I am not a big fan of the word "portal" either, but hey, it is what it is.
flexiblefine (heh, like my women): Thank you very much.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
Paul -
It might seem that way, but of course, that's just not the case. Their are quite a few things you've done or said, that I would or have not done, or even thought about. I'm sure that works the other way as well. There has been some things posted here which have enlightened me, some others I just toss.
You are smarter than I, just from the fact that you have a recent / current experience with higher education - but I, just from being nearly double your age, have much more experience than you.
Is that good, bad or indifferent? Who knows? Who cares? It just is.
I've got no dogs against you trying - it's really the best way to learn right?
However, the difference comes when you say "I'm thinking of trying this, what do you think?" Or, "I've got a plan and I already know what I'm going to do, but here's a snippit, what do you think about this?"
Wouldn't it be better to either just notify everyone that you're redesigning the network and you'd like feedback when it's done - or, establish a redesign team of 4 or 5 individuals whose ideas and theories you respect, and let them advise you on your idea.
At some point in the brainstorming process, doesn't over response come into play? For every project team I've been a part of, I've kept the number (when it was my choice to make) low and odd, that way there wasn't too many opinions to muck the process up and everyone had to give an opinion or be actively involved.
You've gotten alot of opinions on this redesign project, some good, some not so good, some that were way overthought.
Hope you can seperate all those elements to make a usable experience.
Mark Fusco (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
Hey Mark
I agree with everything you said. Especially about asking too much. This is really the last question and answer phase and from here on out it is going to occur where I make the changes, explain why I did it, and we go from there.
The reason I started the whole blog thing was because there wasn't really anybody teaching everyone how they do things. Every major blog site was "this is how it is done" so do it and nobody got a chance to question. I tried to change that approach a bit here.
But brainstorming is almost done and the time for action is fast approaching.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
I am going to have to agree with Mark's last comment. As a designer I couldnt even imagine making the process of any of my personal projects completely public. I'd want my projects to come from me and if, at the end, the project was composed mostly of other people's ideas and suggestions, I'd have a hard time actually claiming it as "mine" or feeling that I should be proud of any praise it got. I know this isnt exactly what Mark is talking about, thats just my personal perspective on the issue.
I have a group of four or five of my toughest critics that I get feedback from after I've finished each step of a redesign (and vice versa). I trust their opinions greatly so I know that any information they give me is going to be valid and worth taking into serious consideration. This helps me determine if I should cycle through the previous step or move on to the next one. I couldnt even imagine that doing it publically would benefit me in any of the ways this private group does.
I think you know who's opinions and knowledge you can truly count on, so you might find it easier to do what Mark suggested. I know for me, its hard enough to put into written form the plans and ideas I have for a project, so its probably even harder to write that up in a blog so that other people will understand exactly what your goals and projections are. And if people dont understand exactly, we're all going to end up giving you incorrect opinions and that will just waste your time and push your launch date further and further down the line.
(nothing worthwhile is ever accomplished by a committee)
.02
eris
Well the public redesign isn't public in the sense that you the audience do the design. It is public in the sense that you get to see my thoughts and the changes that I make instead of one day just popping up a redesign without any explanation.
As a designer, any design that you do should always be your own. Maybe if I do a good job I can be in Andrei's Round 2 of Gurus vs. Bloggers.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
The one thing that I would advise you to keep in mind while redesigning sites here at 9rules is consistency.
Some people come to whitespace via cssvault, some go to the version2 site from 9rules.com, etc. There needs to be a lot of consistency between the various sites on the network, and a lot of linkage in between them.
The logo discussed in the other commenting session was an excellent idea, but I think that the sites need to be more consistent in more ways than just that. You're a smart guy, though - I'm sure you can think of more ways to achieve this. :P
Good luck ... I'm looking forward to critiquing some mock-ups perhaps. (?)
thomas (http://gendes.elivy.com)
It's almost as if you've let the outside world redesign your site, not yourself. By asking SOO many questions and opinions, the 9rules "network" will hardly be yours. Sorta like when an entire small town raises a child when the parents die. Who's child is it?
Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I think it's wonderful. It's like it's a big group project, and Paul is the creator.
Paul might dislike it, though.
Alex (http://pixul.net/)
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#1
Dude, I love the Networking aspect of 9rules. I hate hearing the words Portal because when I hear portal, I automatically think splash screen which is wrong on my thinking, but I doubt that is what yours would be. With your lack of graphics, it would be a plain splash screen :) Anyways, that is an excellent idea to have a 9rules gateway that incorporates all your site and allows the visitor to choose which direction they want to go.
what would be even better is if you had 9 different sites. Then you could say, follow Rule 1, Rule 2, etc...
Bryan (http://www.gamecubecheats.info)