June 02, 2004 | View Comments (39) | Category: CSS Vault
Summary: Version 3 of the CSS Vault is coming soon. What improvements would you like to see?
...i thought this site was a littel stricter on its entries, is gone a bit down hill recently.
That is a recent comment that can be found on the Vh1 entry for the Vault. I replied and to say the least I wasn't too happy. Probably me just overreacting, but every once in a while a comment will popup like this and it always hits me hard. The Vault isn't my money making site. Its not my job. Not to sound like a martyr, but now it is more of something I do for the good of the community. Kind of ironic I get upset over a comment considering the stuff I posted last week huh?
I thought about selling it before, but withheld because it wasn't really that I got tired of it, but the process wasn't streamlined (and yes I did receive some offers). So I streamlined it more and updating the site is much easier than before.
Alex came up with a beautiful CSS gallery, CSS Beauty, which admittedly sped up my plans for a redesign since he did a bangup job and made the Vault look kiddy-like. In any case a new design is a given, but what else needs to be improved?
Has the quality really gone down? If so I can't really say I take the blame that much since I put up the sites people send me and I throw away a LOT of sites. Now I don't validate the sites, I check the source for tables and if they look good to me I put them in. I could get stricter on my selections, but then you would see even less updates than you get now.
I could go crazy and just start over from scratch using stricter guidelines and offering a better analysis of the sites.
Another issue that I have to tackle is site redesigns. I get a ton of emails whenever someone redesigns, even when the site is already in the Vault. My strategy for this has been that if you are in, you are in. However, I will add a news section to the Vault and list updated redesigns so people become aware of them. Hopefully, that reduces some of the emails.
In any case the CSS Vault v.3 is coming soon. What do you want from it?
Trackback URL: http://9rules.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.cgi/253
All I want is for it to continue. Your hard work in getting the site running, and the beautifully coded websites you showcase is what keeps me returning for inspiration to improve my own skills.
Keep it up!
pixelkitty (http://pixelkitty.net)
All I want is for it to continue. Your hard work in getting the site running, and the beautifully coded websites you showcase is what keeps me returning for inspiration to improve my own skills.
I second that. YOu have done a great job with it Scrives. It pisses me off when people often bite the hand that feeds them.
Many of you who criticize Paul dont' seem to realize the hard work it takes to get some of this shit going. What is the old saying
Give a man an inch, he will want a yard
I may have just screwed that up, but you get the drift. Its like, many of the visitors that come here expect GOLD or something to shoot from their monitors when visiting the cssvault or even your whitespace.
You have done a great job. Let some things go in one ear and out the other.
Bryan (http://www.juicedthoughts.com)
Paul, fuck em. People like that are trash, either looking to rile you up, or prove how smart they think they are. None of them have done shit, nor will they ever.
You do a great job on all of these sites, I read em on a near daily basis, which is more than can be said for _any_ of the crappy pedantic "a-list blogger" or navel-gazing "rockstar designer" sites. I'm not the only one, trust me on that.
I like it because you keep it realer than many, you say what you have to say and you are obviously thoughtful and critical.
I like that I can read this site without running into a post stating that "so and so guy redesigned his site for the fourth time this year and its amazing, and wow, it uses semantic markup and a liquid layout" for the 86th time in a day. Bunch of inbred cretins...
Born of Fire, Devil's Child (http://www.whatthefuckistheinternet.net)
Thanks for all the kind words people. Wasn't going for that, but its always nice to hear them (right Keith ;-). In any case what do you want from the Vault. If everything goes right the new design will be up this week.
Scrivs (http://businesslogs.com)
Bryan - the more modern version is... If you give a mouse a cookie...
but that's just my take on it. ;-)
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
First, pardon me for bad English...
Don't be upset by some jealous guy. He just probably did nothing for greater goods, so now he's trying to shake your confidence...
Your work is greatly appreciated among many of us. Sure, everyone has it's downhills and uphills, but it's what they call "perfectly normal and natural" (American Pie ?). Even Jason S.M. (who has one of the greatest webs IMHO) few days ago posted at Ryan Sims' something about getting bored with his own site. So, you see it's a continuing process... :-)
What i want from New Vault is you make it the way it makes YOU feel good and satisfied. I'll keep visiting it however it will be. i don't think you can miss, tough.
Good Luck!
Marko (http://maratz.com)
The Vault is probably my favorite looking site, whereas this is my favorite reading site. When I want some quality topics, well-written articles, and great commentary, I look no farther than white space.
On the other hand, when I want something to feed my retinas I find myself over to the vault. As is, I personally love it, and in my eyes, it is great the way it is.
However, Paul, you have constantly shown me that you can take things beyond greatness and put it on a completely new level. I fully respect that. I also respect that you are always so open to listen to the input of your fan base, rather than feeding them the same meal all the time, never asking if they might want something different.
Since you are so willing to listen to input, I can suggest a couple things. Keep in mind this is coming form a person who is anal about most everything, and constantly wanting more out of everything.
First off, I would like to see thumbnails in the RSS feeds. I know it seems greedy, but that is just something that I would like to have access to.
Second, I think it would be nice to see a list of links pending approval. I do not know why, but I would even like to see the crap that is not added.
Finally, one that I just came up with while completing the last suggestion, I had like to also see a site of the month. I think this would be a great addition to the Vault, on top of its standing flawlessness. At the beginning of the month, viewers would have a chance to vote for their favorite site from the previous month.
Just seems like something to make it a bit more interactive, and a way for geeks like myself to kill even more time on the site. Moreover, to the person who wins the monthly award, it is even more bragging rights. To be listed at the Vault is an accomplishment in itself, but to be voted the best of the best by your peers is an honor within an honor.
Whatever you decide to do with the Vault I got your back homie, I am not going to be insulted if you do not use any of my suggestions. They are just a couple of thoughts I was able to come up with.
Thank you for being so open to users input unlike others who will go unmentioned. You are like me, you constantly strive for the best possible web experince through presentation, and content. Only you do it well.
Ryan (http://www.worldoneweb.com)
Scrivs,
I had noticed that some recent entries were not validating, but at the time you had just posted that you were tired of negative commenting on the Vault, so it didn't seem like a good idea to bring it up!
As I remember, you had posted not long before that you were a little overwhelmed by running the Vault and might even close it down. So I was surprised when you started posting entries faster than you had in a while!
Alex's site is very nice, and he's adding submissions quickly, but he has some problems too... he also posts some non-validating sites, for instance. I find the Vault a lot better to use (tons of screenshots makes it a breeze to find an archived entry, for one thing), I'd hardly call it "kiddyish".
Let's see, you posted an article on Digital Web Magazine, your posting Forever Geek entries every day, Vault and Whitespace entries practically every day, organizing your contests, doing your other work, and oh yeah, starting a new project with Mike and Matthew, right?
Don't let the pressure get to you, you can hold your own.
But your "What ftp client do you use?" post was weak. ;)
Take it easy.
hass (http://hass.spikehost.net)
No doubt, and I agree fully with hass. You are a shark, you constantly need to be moving. You need to realize that we you are highly respected for what you do, and appreciated greatly for it.
Though it can be disappointing at times, you do not need to focus on your sites every hour you are awake. You have got to be one of the hardest working people I have ever encountered, and not just in your profession, as a whole. It seems as if you never quit.
You are the opposite of a cat, whereas they sleep 25 hours a day, you work those 25 hours. I just want to know where you get that extra hour, and how you manage to stay motivated all throughout. I recall your post about motivation, and beer and money were my motives. Although, neither of those will ever keep me as motivated as you are without any incentive.
Hass said it right, you need to take it easy. That comment got you all up in arms, keep in mind, that comment was coming from a person whos only chanced to be linked in The Vault was via their own link in the comment.
I hate to be an ass about it, and I am not looking for a fued. But whatever, I say what I say, I say what I think, I feel what I think.
Ryan (http://www.worldoneweb.com)
Paul
You wrote:
Kind of ironic I get upset over a comment considering the stuff I posted last week huh?
referring to, I assume, this comment:
I would appreciate any remarks about the Vault get emailed to me directly
seen in the light of your previous post, which stated:
If you really have issues with the design send them an email. I get them all the time ;-) (If you have something and don't feel like sending me an email I don't mind if you post it in the comments as many have done already).
Well, with all due respect, and I have a lot of respect for you Paul, isn't this hypocritical rather than ironic?
You either accept criticism, as long as it is constructive, or you don't.
Anything else may be interpreted as censorship and will risk "develop these heroes in our minds", i.e. the very conditions you criticized in your previous posts.
Frankly, I am still confused as to where you stand on the issue, and what the actual message has been here, but I'll blame having been extremely busy lately and unable to keep up with the depths and nuances of the posts and discussions.
In addition, and again from what I have been able to see, I think the discussions and opinions brought forward in the Vault (certainly not the Vault itself, or your own work here) have become needlessly political, and of too low quality, intellectualy and otherwise, lately.
In other words, the arguments posted don't add much value.
This is not just the case with the Vault, but most of the awards and showcase sites, including my own posts showcasing well-designed weblogs (no link - I'm not here to market).
Generally, reagrdless of the site, comments are either of the "looks great!" kind, or the "sucks, ugly, looks like everything else" kind. These are obviously extremes, but you get the gist.
Now, they are both harmless, the first even encouraging, the second impossible to take seriously, but none are constructive.
Why does it look great? Why does it suck?
These are the kinds of questions that would be interesting to see discussed here, and I believe there is great potential among yourself and the more talented and experienced people among the Vault's commenters to do so.
Webstandards Awards does this, to some extent, and I think it's good because it helps people develop an understanding of what constitutes effective and aesthetically pleasing design, and also helps people learn how to express and formulate design critique, which is very difficult. This is why I haven't commented on the sites featured in my posts: it's hard, and it takes time.
So, on to...
Suggestions for the Vault's future:
Put together a group of able designers and developers,or indeed skilled critics (art critics don't have to be artists, right?) and have them review the sites that are posted.
This would obviously slow things down, which isn't a bad thing as I see it, but even so, there should be potential to publish reviews on a weekly basis.
Anything more frequent will make it hard to keep up with the postings, and may not give the selected sites the attention they deserve.
This is already a problem, at least for me, and I find it hard to keep up, as well as somewhat pointless to publish with such high frequency.
Quality inevitably suffers from quantity, although one should remember that any showcase is a question of subjective opinions rather than a universal truth.
You may also wish to consider, as you indeed do, that a number of other showcase sites have sprung up lately, which is good. I hope they can all coexist in peace and harmony.
And, ultimately, you may of course wish to consider your intended audience, and what it is that you want the site to be.
I am offering these suggestions because you asked, but it is your site after all. I hope no one forgets that.
Sorry for the long post.
Lars Holst (http://larsholst.info/blog/)
Now that the Vault has 300+ sites inside, maybe a search function would be handy?
Ben de Groot (http://www.stijlstek.nl/)
One factor in "hoovering up" CSS sites at a rapid rate and writing nothing substantial about them (or anything at all) is that it may put off others from including them in a properly considered review, since the site has already been "discovered".
This will get even worse now there are competing showcase sites scrabbling to mine the same overworked seam. One showcase will doubtless want to feature a site before the other, and as a cconsequence the whole process will become less well-considered. Some sites seem to be included in showcases for no better reason than it doesn't use tables. The most boring sites suddenly elevated to some sort of position of status. The demonstration of taste in design aesthetics requires time and consideration be given to a site, not just a quick look at the source to check it's CSS.
Such CSS showcase sites also encourage massive trekking to a site for a few seconds just to have a look at the design, causing huge spikes of mostly disinterested visitors coming to a site for reasons other than the site owner intended. I don't think I want a crowd outside my house cooing over my paintwork on the window-frames. I was recently featured in CSSBeauty. Lot of visitors. But I wonder about the point of it all. Is this the kind of visitor I really want, I asked myself. A crowd of people who couldn't care less and maybe one or two looking for a design to rip off.
If someone is going to do a showcase, I think they should do it responsibly, and write a review and deal with far fewer sites. What is the point in finding yourself ear-marked as having a good design only to visit the recommending site to discover nothing of interest has been said about it? One starts to feel "used" as mere fodder to support a showcase ambition. Not that I feel that way particularly about any that have included my site in such a way, but it's a thin line and I could easily feel that way.
So I would suggest if it's going to be done, it should be done a lot better.
Joel
Joel, that is more or less what I meant.
I am of a slightly different opinion when it comes to feeling "used" though, although I understand that you didn't mean that literally.
If the website is public, and no request has been expressed (in the Terms of Use or similar) NOT to be included in a showcase, then I expect that the publisher is going to be fine with it. It would be a very strange, and impractical situation if some sort of netiquette dictated that those people be asked in advance.
As I see it, exclusion can only be based on an explicit opt-out.
But this was a sidetrack. I agree with your other points.
Lars Holst (http://larsholst.info/blog/)
I'm certainly not implying permission should be sought for inclusion Lars, it's a free web and anyone can link to anyone else. But where such a link results in a lot of traffic one might hope that the linking showcase would not merely be including one's site on a very casual basis. By writing a proper review one fulfils that criterion. Though I also understand that writing a review is time-consuming and hard work. Still, what's the rush? At present the extent to which CSS sites are being "showcased" is tantamount to churning them out. Such a lack of finesse.
I used to think huge spikes of visitors were to be welcomed, and in a way they are, since one person in a hundred may be the kind of person you might want in your house, but lately I have become quite indifferent to traffic and see the wrong kind of traffic as more like grubby tourists littering up beauty spots.
Joel
A couple of things for you here, buddy -
I think you can boil it all down to your brand and your hype. Take a day to carefully and critically read over all your posts across your "network." Get someone who'll give you an honest opinion you'll listen to do the same. Look at the values you expouse, the critiques you write about others, your contests and the participants - winners and losers, look at what you write about others, and what you had written about yourself at one time (when 9r was online). Think about BusinessLogs and its purpose.
Brand and Hype - you gotta be careful with it.
Regarding CSSVault specifically -
I had a couple of WTF moments with it. The first being your "joke." Honestly, it was unprofessional and disappointing - even in light of the reasons why you did it. There are some lines one just doesn't cross, and that was one of them.
Secondly, I don't think it was the VH1 site, but another recent entry that some mentioned were nothing more than sliced up images. Personally, I didn't have issues with the images, but was surprised that a site which presented a legitimate, informational table as a graphic would make it. Are all tables banned even if they have a legitimate purpose? Wouldn't presenting an informational table as a graphic be just as bad as using a table for design?
Ok. so how does all this relate to brand and hype? Again, go back and read through what you've written. Google yourself and see what others write about you. Read the comments, both those who support you irregardless, those who don't, and those who've left.
Since being /.ted some time ago, your site has become popular. With that, and from that, there is an arguably high level of expectation directed at you.
Like it or not - you have to rise to the occasion, time and time again. Nice as they are, there's no time for naps.
All the positive and negative voices have all by your request. Your brand and your hype is out there recruiting more of it, right this very moment.
Brand and hype - gotta be careful with it.
Finally, to wrap up this novel...you're going to have to thicken up a bit. the VH1 comment was harmless. If you're going to go into business, with partners, clients, bills, invoices and more expectations, you're going to get opinions 500 times worse than that.
Brand and hype. You created the monster, now what?
Mark (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
Paul, I agree with Hass, your ability to keep this entire network going amazes me. To a point I think I understand though; I am very much the same. However, my ideas come to me at a much faster rate than I can’t action them, especially with my life going through some big changes at the moment.
Just don't burn yourself out Paul! The worst thing you can do is try to do too much, because you will only end up in the position where you will have to drop everything to regain your balance. Keep it real.
On another note, I am sometimes suspicious as to whether there is more than one of you. This applies to a lot of bloggers/designers out there. How can you possible keep it all going? And have a life at the same time? I think I would have to start cloning myself to be able to do what you do.
Phil Baines (http://www.wubbleyew.com/blog)
I see your point Joel. We obviously agree on the merits of proper reviews, but I would come across as a hypocrit if I said that it must be done like that (and I know you aren't saying that).
But you are most certainly right that there isn't any rush.
What I tried to convey in my first comment was that it comes to adaptation. What CSS Vault did was excellent when it first started sometime last year, because it was the only (well-known) showcase site.
But the times are changing, and I think Paul will appreciate a business analogy: to stay competitive you must change what you are doing. Even the British Museum has to. Sad, but true.
I am only saying this because Paul expressed such sentiments himself. Personally I couldn't care less about my weblog being competitive, except by those performance measures which I define myself.
On the other hand, and this is something I noticed when I still bothered to track the referrals and discussions on my own "showcase" posts, these things have the potential of reaching people outside the same old, elite (in the true sense of the word) community (yes, Joel, community!) of standards-blessed bloggers and designers and developers, all of which own and care for and post and discuss about the same things and link to the same people, and...you get the message.
At least diversity is one way forward, unless we wish for the uniform-clad, like-minded, fascist society that science-fiction novels warned us against (or is it too late already?).
Lars Holst (http://larsholst.info/blog/)
Well Lars, showcasing CSS sites is indeed big business, since nobody can be counted on to follow links like designers and wouldbe designers, who may also hit your Google ads and later buy something if you ever have anything to sell.
If CSS showcase sites generate a lot of traffic, then the converse is clearly true, CSS showcase sites *get* a lot of traffic. But perhaps the business model that Paul has been touting of late has gone to his head a little and he is losing his way. When the need to generate traffic for a "network" becomes a primary concern then it all becomes a numbers game and the motivations you may have started out with go by the wayside. This is why I am so bored by the business model, it lacks sincerity.
Certainly Paul is also riding on the CSSVault's success in terms of generating traffic to launch other business plans, so it is a litle disingenuous of him to complain about criticism. Yes, at the moment it is all at hobby status level and he is making no money, but the plan is for it to be a gateway to financial success, is it not? Or did I misread that? You can't have it both ways, and in that Mark's somewhat oblique comments about hype are well-founded. Paul would indeed do well to take criticism seriously, rather than being sarcastic about it, since it points to where the tide may turn against him.
Joel
Scrivs,
It's been 2 weeks since the launch of my website CSSbeauty. Up until now I've had great comments about it, as well as some criticizing and rough remarks. I know realize that it is no easy task to maintain a website like this� I receive over 20 emails a day with comments / submissions etc, and with a job and everyday life, it's hard to keep up.
I've also realized that I made many mistakes in my design and implementation. But oh well... nobody is perfect.
I wanted a website to showcase sites that "I" liked. What is my criteria? Well I though it doesn't really need to validate, as long as the site is made using CSS and no tables for structure. The site would also need to be appealing to my eyes. I though many sites that were made using CSS were not getting their respect because it wasn't validating... That doesn't necessarily make the site bad.
I never intended to compete with the Vault or any other CSS showcase website, but I suppose it is what it ended up being� a competition.
It was only a few months ago I was looking through the Vault for inspiration� As I mentioned before, if it wasn't for the vault showcasing CSS sites, and its wonderful resources, I would not have been able to design using CSS.
At this point I feel as if I made a mistake in launching the site without thinking what it would do to the community. After all, I am new at this whole web standards community� I still have much to learn.
Heck I am willing to shut down the site, if it helps the community, and maybe make it something else� Since it seems it does more damage than good. I want to contribute, not endanger.
As far as a redesign to the Vault goes, the features I would look for are a search function, better organization, pending approval like mentioned above; it would be nice to include an explanation from the developer of the site, and maybe a "wow site of the month".
In any case, I don't think the vault is in any danger� It will always be here if you keep it running.
Alex Giron (http://www.cssbeauty.com)
The only thing that really bothers me about the vault is your comments for each entry. Most of the time I could do without them all together. I'd either remove them completely or start writing a bit more about each entry, personally. Saying "I like the pink here" and similar half-sentence replies isn't really helping anybody know whether the link is worth clicking on or not.
Maybe you could have a "featured site" each week or whenever one is worth featuring, and you could write more in-depth about that particular site. The others could just be a "heads-up". "Hey, these sites aren't that remarkable, but they are CSS and worth taking a glance at" kind of thing. And you wouldn't comment at all on those.
And having the screenshots in the RSS feed would be nice, as someone else mentioned.
Derek (http://www.twotallsocks.com/)
Joel/Mark/Lars: You guys are right in the way that I should handle the criticism and I think if you look at the entry you can see that even though I let the criticism get to me (bad timing I suppose) I wrote this entry as a survey to see what could be improved. This is the "business" perspective that you speak of I suppose. Darwinism at its finest and I was sensing that.
Alex: No need to drop the site at all. As you mentioned previously there will be some sites that I just don't cover and no reason for those sites to get overlooked.
Scrivs (http://businesslogs.com)
Paul -
I think at this juncture, the first thing (and possibly the most important and only thing) you need to do for your network and BusinessLogs is develop a marketing plan. Do some quantitative and qualitative research, perform a SWOTT analysis, create a strategy from that input.
If you don't know how to create a marketing plan or only "think" you do, don't attempt it blindly - at least go buy a comprehensive book on the subject.
Stop relying on opportune moments to post something controversial just to get your hits up. That may get you temporary traffic spikes now and then, but in the long run, it's going to be your downfall - as Joel alluded to.
Joel thinks it's time for you to re-evaluate your business model. Honestly, I think it's time for you to establish a business model.
Mark (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
I'll steer clear of the larger, thornier discussion and just offer some feedback on the upcoming redesign.
I agree with Ryan... I'd love to see thumbnails in the RSS feeds as well, with your description and links directly to the vaulted sites.
Sharif (http://www.blueplaidshirt.com)
Paul, I have some more advice for you:
Just take my advice and you are sure to never go wrong. Mostly because you won't try anything, and therefore can never fail.
Oh, and what is this CSSVault site I keep hearing about? Is there a link to it somewhere?
Matthew Oliphant (http://businesslogs.com)
This is a small thing, but how about requiring a URL from commenters? I have noticed that many negative, condescending comments seem to come from people afraid to show their own work. I recently had my site critiqued within the comments of another site critique, by a guy with no URL...that was no fun.
I also think that people would think through their comment more carefully if they had been listed on one of these sites. After Alex put mine up over at CSS Beauty, I almost choked and now am much more forgiving when looking at other sites.
Maybe some more upfront explaination of what the CSS Vault is all about is needed. I realized the other day when visiting the site that I had never ventured outside of the gallery. I went over to the about page and realized some things I hadn't before. So maybe if there could be some "vision" text some where on the front so people get what this is about. Far too many commenters go right for the throat, breaking apart the aesthetics of a site without thinking of accessibililty and the other benefits that CSS affords. Another remedy might be some more comments from you on the info page, or better yet, comments from the submitter, take some of the heat off of you! :)
Wow, that was long. I'm done...
Brad Daily (http://bradleyboy.com/blog)
Well well. I've visited the vault several times, clicked on a picture and then explored the website at the other end. I've never once read any comment! Didn't even know they were there!Don't know if that's your design, scrivs, or just me who has always liked the books with the pictures best.
01 (http://www.01010.org/)
I truly don't understand half the comments posted here, I thought this thread was about modifying the CSS Vault? Business models have nothing to do with the next version Paul is soon to unveil.
I think I'm still puzzled by everyone's critical approach to everything that Paul does. He runs a few websites. Some people go to them. Some more people link to them. Some people comment on what he does. How does this translate into him being a publicly-owned company with shareholders to answer to
If Paul wants to shut down Whitespace for a few days while he concentrates on more important matters, why is it that everyone is grabbing his throat in his absence? It doesn't make sense.
It's exactly what was said earlier, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Does he personally owe you a weblog entry every day? No. Does he owe you a vaulted website a few times per week? Definitely not.
He pays for hosting, pays for broadband access to the internet, pays for his computer himself, and spends hours upon hours a day writing here so that you guys can tear him down? There's a difference between constructive criticism and just being a dick.
"Joel thinks it's time for you to re-evaluate your business model. Honestly, I think it's time for you to establish a business model."
Is it really necessary to put things as bluntly as that? Are you his father? Do you have any financial interested associated with what the hell Paul does? Um.... no.
Mark, Joel, and some others: you guys take life too seriously. Go outside and read a book if reading Paul's website gets you this flustered.
Scott Taverna (http://www.brokerelations.com/)
Guess I have lost control of this site as well. *sigh* Look, I just wanted suggestions on what people would like to see from the Vault. I don't care what business people think I run or which way I approach things. I just wanted to know what new things you would like to see.
For the people who offered the suggestions for the Vault, thank you. I have taken them all under consideration.
Scrivs (http://businesslogs.com)
Why is it that the clucking flock of loyal flatterers wish to misinterpret anything that doesn't sound like complete approval as an attack? What is it that prevents them thinking for themselves? What is it in them that wishes to circumscribe discussion to the usual medley of shallow praise and back-slapping? With friends like these, who needs enemies?
Joel
Scott -
I don't know how long you've been reading this site, but in case you're not aware - Paul, Matthew and Mike are attempting to start a company
Note the comment by Joel -
..."but the plan is for it to be a gateway to financial success, is it not?...
I think you, and probably some others, are misinterpreting our posts. Sure, this is Paul's site and he can do whatever he wishes - I've stated that on other posts here. But, this site is used a great deal as a forum to share ideas - many of which concern how Paul and his partners are going to structure and market this company and network of sites.
My opinion is that he needs to stop worrying about spending time on yet another redesign and rather put together a marketing strategy.
Also, there are others here looking to start a business of their own. If Paul disregards my input (and he does occasionally - which is cool with me) someone else might find it helpful, or not - which is also cool with me.
No, I'm not his dad - are you? Sure does seem like you are coming to his defense pretty hard - just like a good dad would.
Mark (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
For the sake of those who don't understand some of the comments on this post, let me clarify what I was trying to say in a broad sense about CSSVault.
Yes, absolutely. CSSV is Paul's current "hobby" site. It's his to do with and post whatever he pleases - or take it down tonight should he so choose, with no explanation to us required for his reasoning.
Seems fair enough.
However, the brand marketing and hype surrounding CSSV is that it's a community resource designed to enlighten everyone who visits about design with CSS.
So, given the hype surrounding the site, I think the critical comments that hit Paul so hard are the most vitally important to listen to, because they are expressing disappointment in the brand. The hype isn't living up to its expectation.
If one is going to promote themselves as a community resource, or allow themselves to be by others, then one needs to rise to the occasion time and time again, no time for naps.
Paul, it seems, has become lazy in some respects.
Case in point:
..."In addition, and again from what I have been able to see, I think the discussions and opinions brought forward in the Vault (certainly not the Vault itself, or your own work here) have become needlessly political, and of too low quality, intellectualy and otherwise, lately.In other words, the arguments posted don't add much value...." - Lars #11 post
or
..."Saying "I like the pink here" and similar half-sentence replies isn't really helping anybody..." - Derek #21 post
Can you say community resource?
If you're going to be a community resource - then kick ass with it. Take time to scour it, validate it, praise it and it's developer. Contribute more than a line of text as to why it's so wonderful. Don't waste the community's time with jokes and questionable sites.
If that's too much to expect, then drop the resource bullshit and be a link dump designed to get the network more exposure.
My suggestion, is that he refocus his vision as to what his objective is - ie, a marketing strategy.
As always Paul, more power to you.
Mark (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
I second (third?) the idea of having 'featured' sites occasionally - where you take the time to give us more than the one-line tidbit. Of course you can't write an essay on every site that goes into the vault, but every now and then it would be nice to read some extended thoughts on why you feel a particular site is worthy of inclusion.
Perhaps more information with each listing? You could link to the design team/individual designer as well as the site itself - in cases where the vault entry is not actually a design site but from some other industry. Maybe, for the standards community, a little 'does it validate? yes/no' on each entry. It only takes a couple of seconds to find out :)
I also think the 'has since been redesigned' list is a good idea, if only to prevent confusion. We designers like to shed our skins a lot.
I look forward to the new vault, it's already one of my most valued sources of inspiration.
Jim (http://graphikjunkie.com/)
personally, i really dig the CSS Vault and think it's a great resource... happy i came across it, too ;)
as for feature requests? probably been covered already, but some features off the top of my head would probably run something along these lines... Search (possible search options?), how about a Rating system? easier/intuitive comment postings to help stimulate conversations (maybe display a portion of the last 3 comments on the homepage, for example?)... i'm also sure many are curious as to your thoughts and/or opinions on why the site is posted on CSS Vault, so perhaps a brief writeup or post (blog style) on it, along with a larger screenie, comments, etc?
the biggest feature, other than Search, i'd probably say would be perhaps a Rating... and plenty of RSS feeds.
just rolling off some ideas for ya, man ;)
foO (http://www.forgetfoo.com/)
I've enjoyed the last couple of posts that you made in the vault where you started writing more in depth about what you do/don't like about that site. Good job, Paul. :)
Derek (http://www.twotallsocks.com/)
I second Derek. Nice job.
Also, since one of the comments on Firewhite was about them being a victim on pirated-sites, check out how PS handles the "site might have changed since posting" disclaimer. Might be one way to handle the concern you have if a design changes on a site you post.
Mark (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
A disclaimer is such a simple thing to overlook its no wonder I overlooked it. Good looks Mark.
Scrivs (http://businesslogs.com)
A disclaimer is a very good idea; I cannot believe that was overlooked by so many people. I think it might have been mentioned before, but you should also post what criterion makes a site vault worthy.
It seems as if lately people have been very assuming of what it is you look in judging a site. Perhaps if you were to list this criteria, it could avoid people making asinine comments about how your standards for vaulting a site are diminishing.
Moreover, it has gone too long, I think it is about time that the Vault sees more cowbell. I got a fever, and the only cure is more cowbell.
Ryan (http://www.worldoneweb.com)
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#1
I'd like being able to go directly to the website, as you have it now, by clicking on the thumbnail of the website. However, reading the info (or your thoughts or reasons why this design made it in) would be nice. Perhaps limiting the amount of posts shown to only the last 4 or 6, will give you the ability to show some of your comments.
Colin D. Devroe (http://theubergeeks.net/)