April 20, 2004 | View Comments (58) | Category: Design
Summary: What fonts, either graphic design or web, or your favorites?
This has been a high point of discussion between myself and some of my peers. I have found that not one font pleases everyone. If you use Verdana it just seems played out because everyone kind of defaults to Verdana as if they have no other choice. If you go with Arial, it renders really well (why I like it), but it does not have any emotion. It kind of gives off a cold, corporation type feel, which is appropriate for some things. So I go with Trebuchet MS because it has feeling. Yes a lot of people use it, but a lot less than Verdana. Georgia is another favorite, but seeing it on screen I feel as if I am never doing it justice. Fonts bring out the emotions in me I guess.
I have written about fonts in the past: Elements of Web Design: Fonts and text and Web Typography. However, I would like to open the discussion up to all fonts used in both graphic design and web design. What are your favorites and where can I get them?
The reason I make a distinction between graphic design fonts and web design fonts is because web design fonts are narrowed down to the small few that work on the majority of platforms, while graphic designers get free reign when it comes to font selection (at least I think).
Oh yes, anyone who mentions Comic Sans will have their comment deleted and IP banned. Stupid font.
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I'm a big fan of Interstate designed by Tobias Frere-Jones — recently deemed the "most recognizable sans-serif font" used in design today. If you don't understand it's title, this font is a slight alteration of the typeface you see on all US highway signs!
When I use Interstate in a logo or header or something, I think Trebuchet MS goes well with it for body text. They both are angular-looking and modern, so they're like two peas in a pod.
FF DIN is also a nice one, this typeface is a variant from the one used on German highway signs... go figure.
FF Clifford is my hands-down, all-time, favorite serif typeface. The pictures on that link don't do it justice.
Oh, and for non-type buffs... the letters immediately preceding the typeface's name usually denote what type foundry designed that particular rendition. FF = Font Family in these cases.
Mike (http://phark.typepad.com)
Footlight MT and Garamond are my favorites, especially to read print. But I don't think anyone uses them for web. >_<
I think I prefer sans-serif fonts for web. No winner here. I've had my eye on Eurostile. I wish I had it. T_T
Zelnox
I've stayed away from Verdana, because the tone it sets doesn't really work for my day job.
When it comes to sans-serif faces, I've been favoring Helvetica, see The Scourge of Arial, over Arial.
Chris Heisel (http://www.heisel.org)
But Mark you never mentioned your favorite. Or do you think this is a trick question? ;-)
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
I agree with your fanship (is that a word?) of Trebuchet MS, I like it and use it myself. However my favourite font is Times New Roman, with some letter spacing it's nothing short of beautiful :)
David House
On school papers, I choose not to kowtow to the likes of Times New Roman, instead I use Georgia.
I'm a grader for some classes here at school (RIT), and I always give students a better grade if they use something other than Times New Roman.
Yup, you heard me.
Mike (http://phark.typepad.com)
I can't really say I have a favorite, Paul - you know, kinda like you can't seem to ever be happy with a redesign of Whitespace.
I use Myriad(?) I think that's what it's called - not at work today, so I can't check - for all my company literature and logos.
Other than that, whatever's appropriate to the client, message and / or logo.
Mark Fusco (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
I'm a great fan of Trebuchet MS, though I think you can easily be "over-Trebuchet MSed". Georgia looks nice in print. From what I see of Macs, they get the pick of fonts. I wish I had a Mac...
Bruce
Zelnox, I use Garamond quite a bit, even on web pages. Usually like... "Garamond, Goudy Old Style, Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, serif"
Garamond is an excellent print font for reading material, it's used in a good percentage of books.
Fonts I like... Tolkien, Barbador T, DungeonKeeper II, and Signet Roundhand are some of the less usual ones.
Book Antiqua, Goudy OldStyle (particularly italicized), Garamond, for serif fonts.
Sans-serif, I like trebuchet, MS Sans-Serif (great for email, compact and easy to read even at 8pt), arial, verdana, and silkscreen (very small bitmapped font)
Monospace fonts for coding I use Lucida Console and occasionally Andale Mono.
To play around, I have a few fonts that are 'inspired by' famous logos and the like... Apple Garamond, Loki Cola, Walt Disney Script.
At work we use TF Forever (demi and medium, mostly) and Bembo for all our print material. Forever's sans-serif, bembo is serif. Oh, and Oz Handicraft BT on our Intranet, for the logo.
Times is overused to the point where some people just hate it. Like Mike. Or me. Or anyone who's ever worked in the print industry. :-) They like it about as much as we web people like arial.
Not sure where you get the idea that verdana's used more than arial... arial's far more prevalent. It just does the job and doesn't get in the way. Verdana does the job a little better... things are easier to read onscreen. Trebuchet is a nice alternative, but it's a little harder to read onscreen than verdana. I'm considering using Trebuchet next time we refresh our company website... arial's tiresome.
As for Comic Sans... I think Dave said it best.
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
Well Mark I know what you mean then. Didier uses Myriad Pro for all his logos so maybe that is what you speak of.
Of course you should try to use whatever is appropriate for the client, but it doesn't mean you can't have a favorite. Guess you kind of have to be a typography geek to get into that stuff.
Mike, I am writing a paper right now and it is in Times New Roman. I think I will switch it to Garamond and hopefully that affects my grade in a positive way :)
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
I'm a big fan of Emigre and their fonts. No free fonts, but some nice commercial fonts - many display faces, but some nice text faces such as Mrs. Eaves, Filosofia, etc.
Also, take a look at House Industries. Again, these are commercial fonts and mostly display fonts, but they've got some cool stuff.
Scott Boms (http://www.wishingline.com/blog/)
Paul -
At this point in my life, I am a wife and family geek with a healthly mortgage. So, for me, whatever font gets the job done and equates to a paycheck is my favorite font.
Dig?
Mark Fusco (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
i like the "g" of the Trebuchet font, but thats about it.
favorite content fonts: my favorites are Lucida Console, Georgia, and Arial with a 1px letter-spacing.
favorite title fonts: Century Gothic, PMingLiU and Edition.
you might also like the typophile.com forums if you dont frequent them already.
eris (http://www.erisfree.com)
oh, and "where can [you] get them?" --
here are a few:
Barbedor, Forever, Oz Handicraft, Bembo, Signet RoundHand
you can probably find them all if you google a bit.
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
I've always like Geometric (I have no clue where I got it or who makes it) because it's very crisp and clean. It reads well in headlines and in body copy down to 10 pt.
For the web, I like Lucinda Grande and Trebuchet for (like you said Paul) the feeling, but Verdana has always been comforting to me for some reason.
Todd (http://www.monkeyhouselounge.com/loungeact/)
I dig ya Mark. I dig. Eris, I like those a lot.
Todd, verdana is like a that old friend we can call up when we need someone dependable. It comes through in the clutch.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
Hah, the latest issue of Reservocation has an article concerning typography on the web. Crazy.
I particularly like Coudal's quote of "freedom in constraint.."
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
Nothing you can't accomplish with a full set of Univers.
I love typography. It makes me want to put everything in images and deaccesibilitize the hell out of my website. Luckily the coder in me can beat the hell out of the designer...
Sergio (http://overcaffeinated.net)
for web work I'm a huge fan of Lucida Sans/Grande, as well as Georgia. I was a long-time Verdana user, although I too am getting a bit bored of it. I'm also of the opinion that it only looks good at smaller point sizes.
My current favorite font is Transport D Medium, the London Tube font. It fits with my tube-map-inspired redesign :D
eric (http://gideondesign.com)
Well JC, I code in Courier New. ^_^ I find Lucida Console too wide for my 1024 * 768 resolution.
Zelnox
Ooooo, yes I am feeling that Transport D font eric. Man I might have to go on a shopping spree one day assuming I start making money. Is it possible to be a font junkie?
Courier? I have so many bad memories of that font...
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
Courier is probably the worst font to code in... it's hard on the eyes. Try andale mono, the letters are a little less wide than lucida.
But... it's really just an illusion. If you actually type a couple hundred characters in each font, the width is identical. I just tested it because I wasn't sure... Lucida looks a little wider because some of the letters are wider, there's more whitespace inside the characters, but there's less space between them.
Andale's comparable to courier in terms of perceived letter width, but much more readable onscreen. Give it a try. You can get it for free online... it used to ship with IE5, not sure if it comes with windows anymore. It's also called monotype.com on older machines.
For printing monospace, try Dark Courier... I think it's from HP, you can find it if you google. It's similar to courier, but it has a little more solid feel when printed.
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
yes, its very possible to be a font junkie. then you get to go out and find font junkie tools like one of my favorites, The Font Thing.
eris (http://www.erisfree.com)
Just be careful being a font junkie. Too many fonts can make windows fail utterly. You can have about 1000 on 9x machines, give or take... if you go over the limit (it depends on the names of the fonts), windows will no longer boot.. In 2K and XP, it just degrades performance substantially to have too many.
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
JC -
Keep them on a seperate disk - pull 'em when you need 'em.
Mark Fusco (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
yep, I know. You can even just keep them in a folder on your hard drive called "more fonts" or something and drag and drop to install as needed. But I found out the hard way... someone had given me a couple of those "500 font" disks and I popped them all into my nice new windows 98 machine and had to reintroduce myself to the command line to make it work again. heh.
Macs have a similar problem IIRC. I know at my mom's office (she's a graphic designer) they have a ton of CDs and zip disks with fonts, and only keep the most common 100 or so on their PC... and each client's folder on their central server includes a sit file of all the fonts they use in their stuff.
Not sure if OSX shares the problem, though, they're mostly still on 9 because OSX can't talk with all their printing equipment yet.
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
How does her agency catalog the fonts? At one of the firms I worked at years ago, we too had several disks full of fonts and our visual reference was several big notebooks full of the printouts with font name and style in alphabetical order. It wasn't very efficient when trying to find the "perfect" font. I've yet to find an easy way to quickly search visually for a font style.`
Mark Fusco (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
The main thing is alphabetical (disks labelled A1, A2, A3, B, C, etc), but they also have a few of the more common ones by style. Visually... they have the font books, I think. Not sure if there's anything more than that, except in their heads.
They can always go to http://www.fonts.com/ and use the various sorting stuff there to find a likely candidate and then check to see if they have it, I suppose.
I'd love to see a font cataloging system that worked like gettyimages, where you can give it a concept, say, meditative, and a style, say, soft focus... and get this... it asks me how I mean meditative... I can tell it Zen Like or Contemplative... I choose both and get 163 mostly excellent results.
And that, btw, might just be a great way to come up with a visual concept for a site... think how you want to portray it, then search that in getty, and pick one of the results to work around or even just to print out and have sitting on the desk while you do one without photos.
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
...I'd love to see a font cataloging system that worked like gettyimages...
That would be the killer ap for the graphic design industry.
Mark Fusco (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)
I've never bought a font before, but there are a few free ones that I've found and really like. dafont.com is a good place for fonts. Here are my favorites, along with links, in case you want to check them out for yourself:
thomas (http://gendes.elivy.com)
I love Trebuchet MS and have been using it for many years. Closely followed by Lucida Grande (thanks mac!).
Went through a phase of using Georgia - but it just seems too formal for a lot of purposes.
I use Adobe Font Manager and Bitstream FontFolio to manage my fonts, and try never to have more than 400 or so installed at any one time. But I have over 5000 on cds.
I try to pick fonts appropriate for the project rather than my individual preferences.
One font I am totally in love with is Liorah. I think that's a Bitstream, but I lose track.
So little money, so many fonts to buy!
pixelkitty (http://pixelkitty.net)
I'm of a similar opinion to pixelkitty regarding Georgia; whilst I did use it for a while on my personal site, it can appear too fussy at times, especially when dealing with a lot of text at different sizes (pixels, points, or otherwise) — irrespective of the medium.
The latest "general purpose" font I've fallen in love with is BitStream Vera. I find both the serif and sans-serif flavours pleasing to read at any resolution, plus the mono version makes coding much easier on the eye than many of the stock mono's (I'm looking at you in particular, Courier New). It's also free to use for everyone out there.
I'd love to see BitStream Vera take off in terms of popularity and availability; it's a winner I reckon.
Pete F. (http://www.markedup.co.uk/)
By favorite sans-serif font is Futura, and I think my favorite serif font is Optima.
Are there any print designers here who have found themselves using web fonts in their print designs? I've actually done that once or twice recently. Sometimes the web fonts really aren't that bad, and seeing them in print doesn't reflect the same monotony as seeing them online.
Chris Vincent (http://dris.dyndns.org:8080/)
Coincidentally, there's a "Top 10 Fonts" thread going on at Typophile right now. Here are mine:
Favorite 10 For Now (This May Change at Any Moment ... Like Tomorrow)
Thesis Family (TheSans/TheSerif) - deGroot (This set is so large you always have what you need for the job. Not too formal. Not too friendly. Often just right.)
Verdigris - Mark van Bronkhorst (My new favorite go-to serif.)
Gotham - Frere-Jones/HTF
Knockout - Hoefler (old school sans flavor in all weights)
Farao - Storm (beautiful for headlines)
Imbiss (Mustardo/Ketchupa/Mayo) - Bruhn/Fountain (some fonts are just a joy to use)
Dante - Carpenter/Monotype (takes a lot of work to set right, but always looks great in the end)
Neutraface - Schwartz/House
Radio - Rakeng/Thirstype (the penultimate charmer script)
and for the Web...
Georgia - Carter/MS
And this one didn't make my top 10, but it deserves a mention because it worked so perfectly for the project I just finished (a mix CD cover):
Refrigerator - Simonson
Stephen Coles (http://typographi.ca)
I tried to keep up with the Typophile thread, but was just overwhelmed as I got too tired entering all the names into Google just to try and find them.
This list here though should tide me over very nicely. I love Gotham. Especially Gotham thin. That is my style.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
Most of the folks at Typophile are familiar with a huge number of typefaces, so they don't see a real need to link. But I can see the need for most humans.
Here are some other geo/light sanses if you like Gotham Thin: Bryant Light, Unit Thin, Meta Thin, Metsys Thin, Sylvia
Stephen Coles (http://typographi.ca)
Definitely a Tahoma + Trebuchet MS/Lucida Grande combination for web.. for print stuff it'll be Frutiger, TheSans and SunSans :)
Jake
Yeah I think I will experiment with Lucida Grande more. I have neglected it for so long that I almost forgot that it exists.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
[quote]Comic Sans[/quote] This is a font used by teachers for worksheets etc. So don't knock it :P
The reason I say that is because it's the standard font - used to help certain students (some with difficulties etc). i'm not sure though, my fiancee who is a teacher will tell me later on tonight.
Anyways, fonts for the web: Clarendon, Arial, Verdana, certain "handwriting" fonts for graphics (i'll remember the names later).
Robert Lofthouse
A google search for fonts for dyslexia shows that Comic Sans is well regarded. The general view is that sans serif is best so Arial, Trebuchet and Verdana are generally thought good, although there are some negative thoughts about Verdana, saying its ascenders and descenders are not long enough to make the font easily read by dyslexics.
Serif fonts usually make too much 'noise'. But familiarity with a font can bring readability eventually. This may be why comic sans is liked. There are a lot of opinions about most readable fonts and many completely opposing views. Strongest advice seems to be not to specify fonts at all, so it defaults to user settings. 10% (I think) of your visitors may be dyslexic or have difficulties with reading.
I read Joe Clark's book about building accessible websites recently and was very disappointed to find his book uses small fonts, headings of similar size so hierarchy is not clear, and a font which I found very difficult to read. He's supposed to be the guru of accessibility! Not very encouraging.
So fwiw the only font I specify at the moment is monospace for headings, nothing more, but I am not designing for clients.
Peter (http://www.mouldingname.info/home.html)
My fiancee (who is an english and media teacher) said this about comic sans:
The reason it's used for worksheets is: It's fresh, easy to read and accessible. It's also easier for dyslexic students to read.
I say: I never use it on my websites, but I think it's fine for print.
I don't mind using "whacky" fonts for graphics. However, I do try to stick to Arial, Trebuchet, clarendon etc for text in the body.
Robert Lofthouse
The reason it's used for worksheets is: It's fresh, easy to read and accessible. It's also easier for dyslexic students to read.
That doesn't mean it is one of the most horrific fonts ever design in the history of type.
Just because a crappy font is installed on computer systems doesn't excuse how poor a choice it is for anything. Print, web... whatever. Comic Sans is a blight on anything that uses it.
You want a good font for dyslexic's? Try Tekton Pro, Zipty Do, pr Caflish Script Pro.
Again, I realize Comic Sans is used because it's free and pre-installed. It still needs to be erradicated from the existence of all mankind.
There... I feel better now. 8^)
Andrei Herasimchuk (http://www.designbyfire.com)
Nobody's ever said it better than David House did here: "Comic Sans? Are you serious? Every time you use Comic Sans God kills a kitten somewhere..."
JC (http://thelionsweb.com/weblog)
I agree Andrei, I didn't say it was the most brilliant font in the world. However, if you had read the research above, you would understand why it's used.
It's not only fresh, easy to read and accessible, it's also FAMILIAR. I agree with the education system that it is perfect for helping students.
When you create a worksheet, it is to help people learn, NOT to go up in a museum of fine art, or micro-font graphic design portfolio.
The one thing people seem to forget in software development/website design is familiarity. Some of those fonts you recommended aren't very good for dyslexic people at all.
Before you say: "You know nothing about type" lol. I have studied type, graphic design and art as well as my computing studies. So it's not like i'm some uber geek software developer who doesn't know what he's talking about. *coughs* Jakob Nielson *coughs*
Robert Lofthouse
That doesn't mean it is one of the most horrific fonts ever design in the history of type. - Just to be nasty, I found this very funny :P
Andrei reveals his secret love for comic sans :P
Anyhoo, I have very much the same taste as Zeldman when it comes to fonts. Anyone else love that redesign as much as me? It was nice to see someone put so much emotion into a design.
Robert Lofthouse
It's not only fresh, easy to read and accessible, it's also FAMILIAR. I agree with the education system that it is perfect for helping students.
I got that and understand completely. That's also why I referred you to three other type faces that are also familiar, and better designed.
The education system could use something like Tekton Pro and have their cake and eat it too. (After buying the font of course. Which again is the main reason why Comic Sans is used in the first place.)
Andrei Herasimchuk (http://www.designbyfire.com)
Familiar schmamiliar. My ulcer is quite familiar by now and that doesn't mean I hate it any less, thank you very much.
Comic Sans is evil. It should die. End of story.
sergio (http://overcaffeinated.net)
Sergio: It's a good job you're not dyslexic and find it easier to read then isn't it. I'm not dyslexic, but some of my friends in the same field are.
Thank you for offering recommendations to me Andrei, but it should be the educational system you should make those suggestions too. Two of them I feel wouldn't be readable, but the second one was fine.
As I already pointed out: I do not like Comic Sans, but sometimes accesibilty has to rule out pretty fonts.
Robert Lofthouse
Anyhoo, each to their own. There will always be a clash of opinions on the web, that's what makes it so fun. As long as Jakob Nielson is around, people with blogs will have something to rant about. (I am in the process of creating a blog, I shall be ranting soon :P)
Ugh, sometimes I wish this comment section would have an "edit" function for entries :P Not for spell-checking, but for adding more thoughts.
Robert Lofthouse
Well, Helvetica it's the most used for many things I do. But I've become fan of Trade Gothic, Myriad Pro, Minion Pro. Another fav here at the office is all the Meta family, especially Meta Normal.
Cheers!
mini-d (http://www.minid.net)
I agree with Pete F in comment #35. On my site's style sheet I have Bitstream Vera Sans as the first choice. I really love it as a nice variation to verdana. I really like Verdana, but Bitstream is just enough of a difference to look distinct. I'd really like to see it used more.
As for serif fonts, I usually like Georgia, but I'm not a big fan of Georgia's numbers. I've also recently used Goudy Old Style somewhat.
Good topic. I love typography.
cm (http://telerana.f2o.org)
I'm a Tahoma fan myself. I tend to stay away from Serif fonts. I guess I got tired of looking at them in the mid 90's... I also dislike large fonts for content. I tend to pick 10-11 px sizes for p tags unless there is a reason to go bigger. I use Veranda too.
Mike
Perhaps I have no taste but I like most fonts. Sometimes I need an hour or two to get used to them but I usually end up liking most of them. I have different fonts on all my browsers that I change from time to time. If anyone doesn't like Ariel or Veranda or Thymes, for example, try using it for a day or two and see if it grows on you.
Peter 01010 (http://www.01010.org/)
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#1
If you're looking for free fonts, Acid Fonts has a pretty cool selection. They also have a repository of paid fonts as well. Of course, Adobe has a great (and mostly expensive) array of professional fonts.
Mark Fusco (http://www.lightpierce.com/ltshdw)