December 15, 2003 | View Comments (29) | Category: Our Thoughts
Summary: The article that will probably end any chance of success I had doing this web thing.
I have debated whether I should write about this for some time now, but it is something that sits on my mind daily. I have been thinking about the great innovators of the web who have blazed a trail for all of us to follow. From Nielsen to Zeldman to 37Signals they have all brought significant change to the web. However, there has not been that much significant activity coming from these camps lately (some might argue the past year). Do I blame them or get mad at them? Of course not, because without them I wouldn't be where I am today. What I am saying is that the time has come for the second and third generation of web innovators to step up and continue to help the web evolve.
Let's not discuss his site because that has been done to death. Let's focus on what he did for the web back in the days. Nielsen brought usability to the front of everyone's minds and like it or not gained corporate recognition that very few of us have been able to attain. Since he was one of the first to step up to the usability podium he is considered the "guru" of usability. Maybe it's because he spoke the loudest when everyone was willing to listen. Now we need some new "loud mouths" to step up and let the man unofficially retire to the realm of conference speaker, because it is almost impossible to preach to companies about usability when your site is a nightmare.
His suggestions are starting to become common sense to many of us, because they focus on the basics of web design. No designers do not need to become usability experts, but there are certain usability rules that are ingrained in most of us so that usability already comes built into our designs. Nielsen still wishes to focus on these issues without hitting anything new. Time for some other people to step up to the plate.
This is where I start to get in trouble. Without Zeldman the web would not be where it is today. 99% of the designers in the world probably wouldn't be the people they are without the early writings of Zeldman. He changed CSS design with ALA 2.0. This helped give people the drive to try this new CSS thing. He wrote numerous articles preaching the benefits of web standards. WaSP has carried the torch that many follow. He has written two great books on design that are highly recommended to any designer. The downside of this is that Zeldman, to me, is no longer a designer, but a writer.
I do not look for him to provide me with anymore wonderful insight or look towards him for design inspiration. ALA no longer seems to be his, but now belongs to the writers of the articles. Independents Day started out with a precedent to bring the independent web to the forefront of the general web. It didn't last that long it seems. It reincarnated recently as a movement for human rights. Great cause for sure, but I got totally lost on that one. The greatest skill Zeldman has is his writing ability. His site used to be a great source on his thoughts on design. Now it is just a linkfest.
Maybe he has lost his inspiration to innovate or maybe he is just too busy making money. If this is the case who could blame him? I mean he must have busted his ass doing what he did for all of us, so does he owe us anything else? I don't think so. If anything, we owe him for what he did. I just don't think that when he does come out with something new, like ALA 3.0, that the web should be at a standstill and then expect the world's greatest design. He never claimed to be the world's best designer. Could it have been done better? I think so. But I also think he fell into the 37Signals trap of having too much hubris.
They are the world's most famous web design company and they may not have invented minimalist design, but they made people aware of the fact that it could look good. When I first began designing I can say about 95% of my inspiration came from these guys. After some time I found there is only so many times you can look at the same sites over and over again trying to draw inspiration. I kept on waiting for that new site that they would come out with to again fuel me. That site that would once again have everyone praising their brilliance. That site never came and I have been waiting a long time.
Maybe they just got cocky. Maybe they are resting on their laurels. Maybe they are counting their dollars and could care less about innovating anymore. If I was in their position I would possibly be the same way. Like Zeldman though, it seems they have faded.
Do I envy the position of these three? Without a doubt I do and I aim to be up there with them some time. I have the utmost respect for all of them, but I am beginning to think the first generation's time has passed. I have not spoken to any of them or even met any of them so I don't know what goes on in their minds, but I do know that the innovation is gone. I am beginning to wonder if anyone else on the web has the desire to innovate and again change the game. I do know that their will be a new Nielsen, a new Zeldman, and a new 37Signals because it is time for something new.
Many will disagree with my points and 1 or 2 might actually agree with me. I didn't write this to cause trouble, but because I really want to see others carry on what these guys did. I am trying and probably still have a long way to go, but I am trying. As a designer I understand that every thing I do can not be innovative, but why not try? I thank the group of three for everything they have done. Without them, again I would not be the designer I am. You don't owe me or anyone else anything, but I wish I could look to you guys for inspiration again.
Trackback URL: http://9rules.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.cgi/77
Is it time for second and third generations to carry on? Absolutely. With mezzoblue, the zen garden and your site amongst others I think it's already happening. Is Zeldman down and out for the count? I don't think so. His book is the first and, to date, the only coherent argument for standards. It has and continues to be very influential. Maybe he's busy making money. Fine. He didn't start out to become a guru, out of neccessity he was looking for a better way to design web pages and just happend to reach guru status along the way. Or maybe he's just having a life (on account of getting hitched). Who can blame him. Anyway the future of a standards based web is too big to rest on a few shoulders. So take up the colors and march on!
dez (http://www.dezwozhere.com/blog/)
Well said dez. I would just hate to see his site fall into the "best designed link list around".
I do think Dave is big enough to carry it on his shoulders, maybe with some help with Bowman :) Me? I need to workout some first.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
I'd love to see Dave and Doug take over the fight. I think Zeldman would be a bit angry if we considered him 'out for the count', and I don't believe it. As long as webstandards.org continues to function and Mozilla continues to exist, life will go on.
Remember, IE won't be re-released before 2005/6ish with Longhorn, and by then we'll have made some ground against the huge monopolised sprawling mess that is Microsoft.
Maybe the world will be different without Zeldman and Nielson carrying the torch, but a world it will be. There are hundreds of young, hopeful designers out there (myself among them). The battle will eventually be won.
David House
I think Dave Shea will be the next Zeldman, Bowman and StopDesign will be the next 37 Signals and someone (or some people) will step up to grab the usability title from Jakob.
There's nothing wrong with what you've posted here, it's a matter of opinion that's based on your observations. People like "me" will either agree with you or critisize you, but you are most certainly entitled to your opinion. Cheers for having the guts to stand up and say it.
jarrod (http://textbased.com/)
About Zeldman: I think the man's just been too busy lately. He's doing excellent work that pays the bills, and automated ALA enough so that it could fulfill its function without the need to have him look after it all the time. That's commendable. I do hope he writes another book soon, though. He has a unique and very insightful perspective.
Nielsen I appreciate but we're getting to the point where loudmouths for web standards should stop foaming at the mouth and grabbing hold of 5 year-old studies that agree with them. Let's see more new statistics and more up to date precepts. Perhaps even some nice design?
About 37 Signals: I love them. I think lately their best can be found in the Signal vs Noise blog ( http://www.37signals.com/svn/ ). I was going to rant on how I never forgave them for making the gettyimages interface incompatible with Mozilla, but I just noticed that they've fixed that. We can expect great things from these people still =)
There are a lot of innovators out there. The word is spreading. The flash-only, musical corporate sites are disappearing. Change is good, and it's going to come from the people reading this stuff. Have you noticed how this community seems to be integrating more every day? how the memes get passed around faster? how you can follow interesting discussions on new Techniques from blog to blog of your daily morning reading? There's the new generation for you.
sergio (http://overcaffeinated.net)
Like you, at one point, Zeldman was my only inspiration for web design. Actually, I don't even really remember how I came across him or his site, but it was a little over a year ago.
Nowadays, I don't look to Zeldman as much as I do Dave Shea (Mezzoblue), Todd Dominey (What Do I Know?), Ethan Marcotte (Sidesh0w), Jeremy Keith (Adactio), Dan Cederholm (Simple Bits), and a few others.
I won't say that Zeldman is necessarily slipping (although I was disappointed with ALA 3.0), but yeah, he probably is very busy.
Ryan Parman (http://www.skyzyx.com)
A significant reason these people became so influential is not that they inspired but rather that they each championed a cause. Fortunately, those causes have largely been won so it is not surprising that their messages don't inspire in the way they once did. When you think of other influential figures on the Web you also have to include Lessig for Creative Commons as well as Joe Clark and others for accessibility issues. Again, because the are pushing a cause rather than simply plying their trade.
The exception here is 37 Signals -- though I don't get the "greatest design firm" reference. Although they have been an influence, they have been so from the perspective of a style rather than a cause. This similar to the role of musicians and artists in the larger culture.
Bob Baxley (http://www.baxleydesign.com)
"Let's not discuss his site because that has been done to death."
I bet you still say that he shouldn't be listened to because his site is bad.
"because it is almost impossible to preach to companies about usability when your site is a nightmare."
This isn't logical. Why are his opinions on usability less valid because of his own personal site? I'm willing to bet the majority of basketball coaches couldn't even begin to compete in the games they are coaching - does that mean their knowledge of basketball is less useful and players shouldn't listen? I also fail to see what is wrong with http://www.nngroup.com, which is Jakob's actual business.
Also, if usability is so ingrained in designers why were/are so many designs so unusable? And if usability is just common sense why is there a need for new usability inspiration?
I'm not following your entire section on Nielson.
Jeff
I agree with you Scrivs. Nonetheless the second generation is already in march thanks to the people mentionned by Ryan Parman who have already, or about to, gained the status of web authorities. As this second generation gains in fame across the non-professionals the third one is making its laces to follow their track.
Personnaly, I think the reuseit contest and the remaining of the age old design of useit.com was/is a shoot in Jakob Nielsen's foot. His website is mishelping him now.
P01 (http://www.p01.org)
I believe that the second and third generation of web innovators will take over as the lead in his standards-based revolution.
However, I do not believe it will be as "cut and dry" as you make it out to be. Zeldman, Meyer, Shea, Bowman, Cederholm, Rubin, Nielsen, and the rest of them will always be innovating, and will always be a source of innovation and inspiration to all web designers.
I don't see these guys as ever stepping back their efforts to promote standards based web development, user-centered design, or usability, but more in a guiding role to show the next generation the light.
Mike (http://phark.net)
I think you might have something here, if for no other reason that the people you mention don't post as often anymore.
I look to "newer" guys like Simon Willison, Dave Shea, Doug Bowman, D. Keith Robinson, Dan Cederholm and Todd Dominey for my "Web Design" fix now and hit the old school less and less.
I would imagine if you asked any of these guys they would say they still find the old school very infulential and a huge resource and inspiration to them.
Iris Ableman
The reason I say that it is harder to tell people about usability when your own site is unusable should make sense on its own. Today more than ever the better something looks, the initial perception is that it must be easier to use. Compare an iPod with any other mp3 player for an example. I am not saying that he has to be a designer or that his site should look awesome, but in no way is it usable. Throwing text up on the page and having users run their eyes across the whole screen has nothing to do with aesthetics and everything to do with having a sense for usability.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
But the question remains - should a basketball coaches opinion on basketball be less valid because he can't actually do what he says should be done?
And is http://www.nngroup.com unusable? Doesn't seem like it to me.
Jeff
Alright first are we going to talk about nngroup or useit.com? nngroup at least has some navigation at the top to direct you. Useit.com has no navigation whatsoever to speak of. Pretend your resolution is 800x600 okay? Go and find the about page of the site. It will take longer because most people think the about page will have a link, instead of just being some information at the bottom of the screen.
All the text on the left side is the same size so it gets hard to differentiate between any of the sections. There are a lot of things that I find unusable. Things that as a usability expert he should point out and know how to fix. Can a basketball coach still play? Maybe not, but can he show you how to make a pass? Yes.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
Along the same lines, Adaptive Path hired Douglas Bowman to do their site. Does it make them less of an authority on usability because they paid someone else to make their site usable?
I can't agree with you that because Jakob Nielson's site has usability issues he can't tell other people what to do. The academic community is entirely based on research done by people who have little experience implementing what they are researching. A business administration professor who has a Ph.D. might do fabulous research on international marketing strategies. Should his work be tossed aside because he's never actually led such a marketing strategy?
Some people do things well, some people teach others to do things well. The two are not necessarily correlated and one doesn't make the other invalid.
Jeff
Just to clarify in ref with Independents Day that this project was co-founded by 3 persons and Zeldman happened to be 'one' of them.
The projects revolved around promoting the independent web community, still is and will always be!
Project 1210 coincided with the relaunch of ID3 - ReBirth version site which goals are stated here - About ID3.
Also I suggest - when not 'getting it' about something - why not ask about it? Is this what the independent community is about? Whining in its own blog?
Hey we thought that raising awereness around a global issue was everything but trivial.
A huge part of the web community lives and works in countries where they struggle with the violations of Human Rights every day! Unless the independent web is thought to be representing 'less' than the world wide web??? Did I miss something?
BTW the call for submissions is still going strong! You are most welcomed to participate. This is a great way to bring together the indepedent community while making its existence known to the public.
Find out how they see, say and support it!
.c
Carole Guevin (http://netdiver.net/)
Carole: I am sorry you saw this entry as "whining". Anyone who knows me understands that this is far from the case. I was merely thrown off by independents web to human rights advocates as I am sure many others were also. It is know way knocking the great thing that has happened because of it. I even say that it is a great cause.
Jeff: I am failing miserably it seems in getting my point across. I blame only myself for this.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
Scriv,
I think what alot of it boils down to is the fact that; When you're a player you really don't realize it at the time. I consider you a player. I'm sure when you mellow out some people will say , "Hey that whitespace was great, I learned so much there. I wish it was still there, we just don't have sites like that anymore."
I also believe that if Zeldman would have turned his book into an "on-line tutorial" it would seem like he was still viable. Something happens when a web guy goes hard-copy. I heard the same thing when Eric Meyer put out his book. My point is, this is all natural. Don't sell yourself short, you're filling a "player" spot at this very moment. Take advantage of it.
CIAwallst
"99% of the designers in the world probably wouldn't be the people they are without the early writings of Zeldman."
I don't buy this. I'll bet that 99% of the web designers out there have never even heard of Zeldman. This is *not* a crack at Zeldman -- I think most web designers are just hacks using tools like Frontpage to crank-out garbage. I could be mistaken, but I've met so many so-called "web designers" who couldn't even tell you what "HTML" stands for and have never heard of Mozilla. Maybe it's just that I've met an inordinate amount of hack designers.
MikeyC (http://www.zeit.ca/)
MikeyC: You're dead on, I work in web hosting and there are a disturbing number of people out there with a copy of Frontpage2000 who think they are legit web designers. And people wonder why it's so hard to get real web design work?
jarrod (http://textbased.com/)
I guess it depends on your frame of reference, but in my web lifetime, 37signals IS in the 2nd generation.
I've been reading Zeldman for almost a decade, and way back when I would say he was really more known for his writing, links, and icons than anything else. I don't know that I would go as far as saying he is in the 2nd generation as well, but my point would be that although he has been around a long time, he hasn't necessarily been doing the web development evangelism thing the whole time... it's been a gradual shift.
Nielsen has been doing what he does (seemingly) forever, but I think it's because he basically just had to change the focus of the work that he was already doing towards web development.
I'm having trouble remembering who else was a voice around that time...
Ben (http://www.magnetbox.com)
I think you're forgetting a generation.
Gen 1. Siegel and the whole pixel gif/ tables for layout/ photoshop mockup crowd.
Gen 2. Zeldman and the standards awareness fight, start of semantics, clean and simple design, more usability, etc.
Gen 3. Bowman and the crowd R. Parman mentioned are building on Gen 2 and bringing back great visuals on top of the clean minimalist design with accessible code while continuing the evolution of usability and semantics.
Patrick (http://i.never.nu)
Ah yes, David Siegel and the whole Killer Sites/High Five phenomenon, which had its predecessors as well (the ol' ambiguous Point Top 5% site thing, etc)...
Ben (http://www.magnetbox.com)
Great post, great comments. We're flattered to have been included in the same company as Nielsen and Zeldman. We've enjoyed learning from these folks and continue to enjoy learning from them and others. I hope we'll be able to continue to contribute to the dialog and evolution of web-based design.
As for what we've been up to... Well, I can assure you it's not resting on our laurels or counting our money. We've been very busy innovating the business-side of web design. 37express is the first example of that, and there is much more to come. Keep an eye out for Basecamp in early January. I think everyone here will find it very useful for building their own web/design businesses.
Jason Fried (http://www.37signals.com)
Scriv, no need to PC-ify what you've said about 1210/Grandpa web designers/etc. Good on you and thanks for sharing your thoughts! All I have to say is:
Innovate vs Consolidate.
It's been a long while since i've ridden in a peloton, but it's really enjoyable being part of a team where you all take turns in the lead, with the rush and responsibility of setting the pace and direction.
Ordinarily when I agree with posts I don't write a response, as when posts get more than 20 or so comments they become distributed to the point of being irrelevant. So I save it, nod, and move on to the prev | next navigation.
Or in your case, the triple-contextual site map and footer-in-one! Love it!
Inspired by xBlog's old design at all?
Adam Bramwell (http://www.octapod.org/adam)
To be honest I never say xBlog's old design. For once the inspiration was really my own thoughts and thinking something had to change.
Being on a team by myself I am always the lead so the pace rarely changes. The new generation has more leaders than past generations (rather they want to be or not) so I see only bright things coming for the future of the web.
Scrivs (http://www.9rules.com/whitespace/)
I guess with Mezzoblue, CSS Zen Garden, SimpleBits, Whitespace and some other sites, we don't need to wait for next generation, as the 'next generation' is already here. Keep it up!
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http://www.ambience.sk
dusoft (http://www.ambience.sk)
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#1
They are the world's most famous web design company
huh?
I always thought of them as getting to the "3 column, CSS , most of the site looks the same" party just 5 minutes ahead of the rest of us.
world's greastest?
nope. during the dot bomb days there were dozens (hundreds?) of web design firms that forgot more about good design on the web then they will ever know IMO.
me